MICHAEL BROWN ("Co-defendant" and Commonwealth "star witness") | ||
| Vol 1 (#5) pp. 104 - 172 | Monday, May 6, 1991 | Charles R. Rapp |
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This is Michael ( "trump card") Brown's direct testimony under District Attorney Joseph A. Massa on the first day of Jay Buckley's trial, Monday May 6, 1991.
Here is an instructive little exercise. Do a "Find" here on
Here's one of his "did's" - the one which (purportedly) got him arrested.
Of course, he didn't "did" or "do" any of this stuff.
And understand that this testimony is the finished product (story). Be SURE to read
Mr. Brown's STATEMENTS to see how this story was arrived at. Quite a story in itself.
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MICHAEL R. BROWN, called as a witness was sworn and examined, testified as follows:
BY MR. MASSA:
Q Speak up, please, and identify yourself by stating you name for the Court and jury.
A Michael Brown, 266 Lister Avenue, Falconer, New York.
Q Michael, this is a large courtroom and I want you to speak loud enough so the Judge, Mr. Smith, the Court Reporter, and the jury can here (sic) you. How old are you?
A Nineteen.
Q What is you date of birth?
A 6-1-71
Q With whom did you live prior to your being arrested and incarcerated?
A My parents.
Q Their names?
A Leon and Janet Brown.
Q Who else resided at your home?
A My sister and brother.
Q Where is you home located?
A In Falconer.
Q Where in reference to what would be called the downtown area?
A Right downtown basically.
Q How far in school did you go?
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A Tenth grade.Q What was the name of the school you last attended?
A Falconer Central School.
Q Did you get a G.E.D. Degree?
A Yes.
Q Did you finish the tenth grade or did you quit school before the tenth grade?
A Before the tenth grade was up.
Q Have I met with you on several occasions relative to your appearance in Court today?
A Yes.
Q Did you (sic) give you any instructions prior to the beginning of the interview?
A Just tell the truth.
Q Did I write out any answers for you and tell you to memorize them like a robot?
A No.
Q Do you know Jay William Buckley?
A Yes.
Q Would you point to him please?
(Whereupon, the witness does as requested.)
MR. MASSA: Let the record reflect that Mr. Brown has identified the Defendant, Jay William Buckley.
Q When did you first mean (sic) Jay Buckley?
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A When I was working at Bush Industries.Q You quit school in the tenth grade; is that right?
A Yes.
Q When would that have been calendar-wise? What month and year?
A I'd say roughly October of 1987.
Q What did you do from that point until May of 1989?
A I worked at Bush Industries and Amo MarinA (sic)
Q Were you working on May 18, 1988?
A For part of the day, yes.
Q Who were you working for?
A Pete Sirianno.
Q What was the name of the company you were working for?
A Amo Marine.
Q When did you first meet Buckley?
A When I was working at Bush Industries.
Q When would that have been?
A About October of 1987.
Q Did you work together?
A Yes.
Q Did you consider yourself a friend of Buckley's?
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A Yes.Q Did you hang out together?
A Yes.
Q Did he come to your house?
A Yes.
Q How often would he come to your house?
A Just about every day.
Q What was the reason he came to your house?
A He didn't have no where else to go.
Q As of the middle of May of 1988, do you know where he was living?
A Yes, in the woods.
Q Pardon?
A In the woods.
Q In the woods. Explain.
A Just a wooded area off Willard Street.
Q At Lister Avenue you stated you lived with your folks; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And were there vehicles, family vehicles that were owned by your parents?
A Yes.
Q What were they?
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A A blue Chevy van and a Ford Tempo.Q Describe the van for us, please?
A The van was about an '86, it was blue and it was a paneled van.
Q What do you mean by a paneled van?
A The back end of it was mostly all paneled, there is just four small windows in the back.
Q Did you have a steady or regular girlfriend as of May 1988?
A Yes.
Q What was her name?
A Brenda Snow.
Q Are you, Michael Brown, the father of a child?
A Yes.
Q What's your child's name?
A Michael.
Q Michael, you have given a number of statements to different police officers or different police agencies; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q You have testified in this courtroom at a Preliminary Hearing of Mr. Buckley; is that correct.
A Yes.
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Q You've given statements to your attorney and/or to members of the Pennsylvania State Police; is that correct?A Yes.
Q Do you recall being in this courtroom a week ago Friday and entering a plea to certain criminal charges?
A Yes.
Q Do you recall what you pled guilty to?
A Yes.
Q What charges did you plead guilty to?
A I pled guilty to indecent assault, accessory to felonious restraint and hindering apprehension.
Q Have you, on the times and occasions that you have had to talk with the police, given different statements or versions as to the questions that were asked to you?
A Yes.
Q You admit that to the jury?
A Yes.
Q Do you understand that you were expected by the Commonwealth and this Prosecutor, the District Attorney to be absolutely 100 percent truthful in your testimony at this stage?
A Yes.
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Q Do you recall the events of Wednesday, May 18, 1988?A Yes.
Q When did you first awaken?
A Approximately 7:30.
Q Who was at home at the time that you awakened?
A My brother and my fiancee and my little sister.
Q What was your little sister's name?
A Missy Brown.
Q Were your parents at home when you awakened?
A No.
Q Where had they gone if you know?
A To work.
Q You stated that you were working at Amo Marina (sic) on this particular date?
A Yes.
Q What did you do there, Michael?
A I assembled boats.
Q What were your regular working hours?
A Nine to five.
Q Nine Am. to five o'clock p.m.?
A Yes.
Q Did you punch in and punch out? Did you have to punch in when you reported to work?
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A Yes.Q Did you have to punch a timecard when you left from work?
A Yes.
Q Do you know that on Wednesday, May 18, 1988, your timecard indicates that it was punched out at 4:37 p.m.?
A Yes.
Q Did you work until 4:37 p.m.?
A No.
Q You arose at 7:30; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q When did you first see Buckley on this particular day?
A About eight o'clock.
Q Under what circumstances?
A He came to my house.
Q At the time he came to your house was any one other yourself (sic) still there?
A My brother.
Q What conversation, if any, did you initially have with Buckley on this date?
A He asked me if I was going to work.
Q How did you respond?
A I told him yes.
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Q Did he ask or have any further conversation with you?A Yes, he asked me if he could use the van.
Q Did he tell you why he wanted to use the van?
A To look for work.
Q His words again were what?
A To look for work.
Q Did you respond when he asked you if he could use the van?
A I told him no.
Q No. Whose name was that van in?
A Who owned it? My father.
Q What explanation did you give when you told him that?
A I told him I didn't want to take a chance of getting caught.
Q How did he react?
A He just got a little upset.
Q Did he make any further requests to you?
A He just told me that my parents would never find out and I told him I didn't want to take no chances.
Q Did you, in fact, let him use the van that morning?
A No.
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Q Anything else happen between the time that - - Buckley arrived you said at eight Am., until the time you left your home?
A No.
Q Did you, in fact, leave home?
A Yes.
Q Did you, in fact, go to work?
A Yes.
Q When did you last see Buckley before you left for work?
A Approximately 8:45.
Q Where was he?
A At my house.
Q What was he doing or excuse me, by the time it was just the two of you in the house?
A Yes.
Q You left your parents' house?
A Yes.
Q You left Buckley there; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q What was the reason you left him all alone in your house?
A He had to make some phone calls and do some laundry.
Q Did he tell you who he was going to call?
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A Yes.Q Did he mention any names?
A Yes, he said he was going to try and get a hold of Shelly Anderson.
Q Who?
A Shelly Anderson.
Q Did he tell you why he wanted to talk to Shelly Anderson?
A To see if she could pick him up.
Q Was this commonplace for Buckley to come by your house?
A Yes.
Q Was it commonplace for him to spend time alone in your house?
A Not very often, no.
Q But on this particular date you left for work about what time?
A About 8:45.
Q You left there, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Do you know whether or not Buckley called Shelly Anderson?
A I wasn't there when he did, no.
Q How did you go to work?
A In the van.
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Q Pardon?A In the van.
Q The last time you saw Buckley that morning before you left for work what was he wearing?
A A blue stone-washed jean jacket, a blue baseball cap, tan T-shirt with a flannel shirt over it.
Q You said he was doing some laundry, what did you mean by that?
A Just some of his clothes.
Q How did he bring his clothes to your house?
A In a garbage bag.
Q What type of bag?
A Just a plain green garbage bag.
Q Did he bring laundry or dirty clothes to your house on more than one occasion?
A Yes.
Q Now Michael, were you wearing a watch on this particular date?
A No.
Q But you did go to work?
A Yes.
Q Did you have another contact with Buckley?
A Yes.
Q What was that contact?
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A He called me where I work.Q That's at Amo Marine?
A Amo Marine?
Q A-M-M-O?
A A-M-O.
Q A-M-O?
A Yes.
Q This Amo Marine you said you worked there from nine to five, did you have a regular lunch hour?
A No.
Q What was your understanding or how did you take your lunch hour?
A Pretty much whenever I wanted to.
Q Didn't have to be between eleven and eleven-thirty or eleven-thirty to noon, or anything of that nature?
A No.
Q Was it permissible for you to come and go from your work? Could you leave the premises?
A For lunch, yeah.
Q So you stated you got a - - you had contact from Buckley?
A Yes.
Q Was it a personal contact or by telephone?
A Telephone.
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Q What did he say to you?A He asked me to come pick him up.
Q What was your response?
A I told him he would have to wait until after I got out of work.
Q What words did he use specifically, if you recall? What did he say to you specifically?
A He told me to come pick him up, he just said, "come pick me up."
Q Did he tell you why?
A No.
Q You initially said no you had to work?
A Yes.
Q Did he have any response to that?
A Yes, he just said if I knew what was good for me than (sic) I'd get up there and pick him up.
Q Where those his exact words?
A Yes.
Q Did he tell you where you were he wanted you to pick him up at?
A Yes.
Q Where?
A At the Four Coins.
Q Where is the Four Coins?
A In Falconer.
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Q Where is it in relation to the James B. Schwab Company?A Right across the road.
Q Right across the road or the street?
A Yes.
Q Directly across the street?
A Yes.
Q What did you do when he said if you know what's good for you you better come pick me up?
A I left.
Q You left work?
A Yes.
Q Did you punch out?
A No.
Q Did you talk to anyone?
A Yes.
Q Who did you talk to?
A Darrren Braymiller, my service manager. I asked him if I could leave.
Q What did you do when you left work?
A Went and picked up Jay.
Q You went precisely where?
A To the Four Coins Lounge in Falconer.
Q What did you do when you first saw Buckley?
A I stopped.
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Q Where was he?A At the Four Coins Lounge in Falconer.
Q Did he get in to your van?
A Yes.
Q Where was your van parked when Buckley got in?
A On the hillside street by the Four Coins and the acres.
Q Where you parked could you any (sic) business establishment across the street?
A Yes.
Q What could you see?
A AB. Dick.
Q AB. Dick?
A Yes.
Q Is that in the same building or same place as James Schwab?
A Yes, it's the same place.
Q Now, Buckley is in your van at this time; is that right?
A Yes.
Q Who is driving? Who is behind the wheel?
A I am.
Q Where does Buckley get in?
A In the passenger seat.
Q Do you have any conversation with him at that
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time?A Just asked - - he just asked me what I was doing. I told him I had to get back to work and he said he was on a stake out, that Shelly Anderson was supposed to pick him up but never did.
MR. BUCKLEY: I thought you were supposed to deal with the truth here.
THE COURT: Mr. Buckley, I am not going to tolerate any type of outburst like that. Also, Mr. Brown, I detect maybe the jurors are having a little problem hearing you. You keep your voice up. Speak louder.
Q Michael, I would also ask you to speak up so we can hear you clearly.
(Whereupon the last question and answer were read back.)
Q What was said next?
A I just asked him what he was doing and he told me that there was a person from the AB. Dick that - - well, he mentioned Jeff McCullough's (ph) name. staking him out, he carried money from 84 Lumber to the bank and he planned on hitting Jeff to get money to go to California and he has asked me if I remember what he was talking about and I said yes and that's the same situation with the person that works at AB. Dick.
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Q Did he mention any name at AB. Dick?A No.
Q Did he mention whether it was male or female?
A Not right at that time, no.
Q What next happened?
A We were sitting there for just a couple minutes and then he told me, "There she is." and there was a woman getting into a blue Caravan.
Q What happened? The woman gets in the blue Caravan; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Who was that woman?
A It was Mrs. Wilson.
Q Mrs. Kathy Wilson?
A Yes.
Q Had you ever seen her before that precise point in time?
A No.
Q Did you know her name at that time?
A No.
Q Did you know that she worked at James Schwab or AB. Dick Company on that date and time?
A No.
Q When she got in the van did you know where she
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was going to go?A No.
Q What instructions, if any, were you given by Buckley?
A Just to follow her.
Q What did he say to you?
A Follow her.
Q Pardon?
A He told me to follow her.
Q What did you do?
A I followed her.
Q Where did she go?
A First she went to the Marine Bank in Falconer then to the Quality Market.
Q Let's go one step at a time. When she left her place of employment, she went where?
A To the Marine Midland Bank.
Q Did she park her van and get out of it?
A I don't know.
Q What did you watch her do?
A She pulled in the parking lot, we turned up Falconer Street to turn around and come back and she
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sat at the stop sign until she pulled back out of the parking lot.Q What did you see her do when she pulled out of the parking lot?
A Head towards Falconer Quality.
Q Where is the Falconer Quality Market in reference to the Marine Midland Bank?
A It's on the same road, it's just a couple minutes up the road or so.
Q In terms of blocks, how many blocks away?
A One.
Q Did Mrs. Wilson pull out of the parking lot of the bank; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And went directly to the Quality Market in Falconer?
A Yes.
Q And is it your testimony that you followed her?
A Yes.
Q What did Mrs. Wilson do with her van?
A Parked it at the Quality.
Q Where did she park it?
A Up towards the front of the parking lot.
Q Did you see her get out of the van?
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A Yes.Q What was she wearing?
A Tan dress suit.
Q Where did she - - what did she do once she got out of the van?
A Went to the Quality.
Q What did you and/or Buckley do?
A Jay got out of the van and followed her in to the Quality, went in to get a pack of cigarettes.
Q Who did you next see come out of the Quality Market?
A Jay.
Q What did he do?
A He walked over to the van and stuck in a paper sack in the van just told me to pull around to the side and follow her.
Q You saw Buckley come out of the Quality Market?
A Yes.
Q He came to which van, your van or - -
A My van.
Q He told you what?
A He told me to pull around to the side and follow him.
Q What did he do then?
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A He then got in Mrs. Wilson's van.Q Do you know whether he was carrying anything with him at that time? Any weapon?
A Yes, he had a sawed off shotgun, bolt action shotgun.
CEX24
Q I show you what has been marked for identification purposes as Commonwealth's Exhibit 24, could you open that up please.
THE COURT: Does Defense Counsel have any objection?
MR. SMITH: I don't know what he's doing.
Q Would you take out what's inside?
A (Whereupon the witness does as requested.)
Q Is that familiar to you?
A Yes.
Q What is it?
A It's the gun that Jay had.
Q That's what you called - - you referred to as the sawed off shotgun?
A Yes.
Q Where did he have that?
A He always carried it with him, ever since he got it he carried it down in his pants and covered the top part with his jacket.
Q Put that back in there.
MR. MASSA: The Commonwealth move (sic) the admission of
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Commonwealth's Exhibit 24.MR. SMITH: No objection.
THE COURT: Admitted.
Q Mr. Brown, when you saw Buckley get in to Kathy Wilson's van?
A Yes.
Q What happened next, what did you do?
A I pulled around the side of the Quality Market and I followed them to my house.
Q Who was driving the Wilson van?
A Mrs. Wilson.
Q As you're facing the front of the Falconer Quality Market, did she go to the right or to the left?
A To the right-hand side.
Q You began following?
A Yes.
Q Why did you do that?
A I was told to.
Q Pardon.
A I was told to.
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Q Where did you go?A To my house.
Q Where is your house located in reference to this?
A Just kind of in back of the Quality a ways and across the street.
MR. MASSA: Mr. Smith, may I see your map?
Q I show you what has been marked as Defense Exhibit One, would you take a moment and study that please? I would point out this is Lister Avenue, this is Work Street, that's the Quality Market. Is this area familiar to you?
A Yes.
Q Would you point out to the jury where you were residing on May 18, 1988?
A Yes. Right there, 266 Lister Avenue.
Q It's marked on the map, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Would you mark out where the Quality Market was?
A Quality Market is right there.
Q Would you mark, point for the jury, where James B. Schwab and AB. Dick Company is?
A Right here (indicating).
Q Where is the Four Coins Lounge?
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A Right across the road.Q And this is where you saw Kathy Wilson exit the building that you called AB. Dick and get in to her van?
A Yes.
Q You were directly across the street at the Four Coins Lounge; correct?
A Yes.
Q Could you point out the Marine Midland Bank?
A Yes, it's right here (indicating).
Q Would you point out again Marine Midland?
A Yes, it's right up here.
Q And your house?
A It's right here (indicating).
Q Where is the Falconer Quality Market?
A Right here.
Q Will you indicate, trace, on the map with your finger the path that Mrs. Wilson's van took when leaving the Marine Midland Bank and where it went?
A Exited out through there, exit down this road, down right here, over on to this road and loops down by a street right there.
Q First of all, I asked if you could show how Mrs. Wilson went, what route she took from the bank to the Quality Market.
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A From the bank to the Quality Market?Q Right.
A This road right here.
Q And where is the front of the Quality Market?
A It would be right here (indicating).
Q Where did she park?
A Right up here.
Q And when she drove out of the parking lot, what route did she take?
A The route that I pointed out, coming down this way.
Q And you went where, Mr. Brown?
A To my house.
Q What happened at your house?
A When we got to my house Jay told me to go find some rope so I walked over to the shed and opened up the door, closed it, and walked back and told him I couldn't find anything and he told me to go downstairs in the basement to get his black electrical tape.
Q When you arrived at your house and you were in two separate vans, Mrs. Wilson and Buckley were in one van?
A Yes.
Q You were in your folks' van?
A Yes.
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Q Was any one else there at the time?A Not at this time, no.
Q What happened thereafter?
A I got the tape for Jay and he tied Mrs. Wilson up and used th (sic) tape to put around her mouth and then he put her in my basement.
Q Did he restrain her in any other way at that time other than with the electrical tape?
A Yes.
Q What did he do? Explain.
A He used a flannel shirt to tie her arms with and some twine, like baling twine to tie her legs.
Q Explain how he - - demonstrate and explain to the jury how he tied her arms.
A He tied them in the front of her like this.
Q What did he do with her next?
A Put her in to my basement.
Q Explain to the jury what's in your basement.
A Just different odds and ends. A shelf, my bedroom is in one section of it, it's a finished basement.
Q Was any else (sic) home at this time?
A No.
Q Now, you're telling this jury that Buckley brings Kathy Wilson in to the basement of your house?
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A Yes.Q What happened next?
A Then the phone rang so I went up stairs and answered the phone and Jay put a board, wedged a board to the outside door of the - - to the door that goes outside, wedged it from there to the first room in the basement and came upstairs.
Q He came upstairs?
A Yes.
Q What transpired, if anything, upstairs?
A I got off the telephone and walked outside and then Shelly Anderson arrived at my house and he told me that he would be right back and he took her van from her.
Q He meaning Jay?
A Jay.
Q Told you what?
A That he would be right back.
Q Where was Mrs. Wilson all this time?
A She was in my basement.
Q Was she free to walk about?
A No.
Q Why not?
A He tied her to the metal shelf in the basement.
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Q Explain.A He just tied her arms and legs to the two poles that come down.
Q And he left?
A Yes.
Q How did he leave?
A In Mrs. Wilson's van.
Q What did you do?
A Stayed there.
Q Did Mr. Buckley return at all?
A Yes.
Q When?
A About - - I'd say maybe ten minutes after he left.
Q Was he still with Mrs. Wilson's van?
A No.
Q What happened next?
A He came back to my house and got out and told me he wanted to use my van so I let him.
Q Why did you let him use your van?
A Because he told me he wanted to use it> (sic)
Q Didn't he tell you he wanted to use your van earlier that morning?
A Yes.
Q Why didn't you let him use it earlier in the
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morning?A Because I didn't want to get in trouble.
Q Pardon.
A I didn't want to get in trouble.
Q Didn't you think you would get in trouble now when you let him use it?
A Yes, but I was just kind of scared, just let him take it.
Q So you let Buckley use your van?
A Yes.
A No.
Q Do you know how long he was gone?
A I'd say probably two hours.
Q Did he return to your house?
A Yes.
Q Was there anything different about his appearance when he returned after being gone for two hours?
A Yes, when he came back he no longer had his jacket nor his hat on and he was wearing a different shirt.
Q Anything else different about his appearance?
A No, not that I noticed. His hair looked wet, but other than that there was nothing different.
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Q Did you have any conversation with him at that time?A Yes, when he came back he told me that he was going to need my help.
Q He told you what?
A He told me he was going to need my help.
Q What did he mean by that?
A He wanted me to go with him.
Q Did he tell you where?
A He said he went to try and make a few phone calls and couldn't get a hold of nobody.
Q At any time did you offer to let Mr. Buckley use your parents' phone?
A Yes.
Q What was his response to that?
A He said no because there's an answering service on the phone that records incoming and outgoing messages.
Q What did he say about that?
A He just told me no, he didn't want to get recorded.
Q So now he back (sic) and he tells you that he needs your help. Did you ask him why or what he meant by that?
A I asked him what he was going to do and he
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said that he was just going to take her out and drop her off.Q Did you and Buckley leave your parent's house?
A Yes.
Q In what vehicle?
A The van.
Q Whose van?
A My Dad's van.
Q Where was Kathy Wilson?
A She was in the back of the van.
Q Pardon.
A In the back of my van.
Q How did she get from the basement of your house to the back of your van?
A Jay brang her from the basement and stuck her in the back of the van.
Q Pardon.
A Jay brang her from the basement and stuck her in the back of the van.
Q Did he do anything to her or with her in the back of the van?
A Tied her up to a board that runs behind the two seats.
Q And how did he do that, Mr. Brown?
A He took and tied her arms and her neck like
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this and had her back up against the board and wrapped it around the board and tied it and took that twine and tied her legs around the other end.THE COURT: Have you had examination of this Mr. Smith?
MR. SMITH: No, actually I have never saw the board. If he had to unwrap it I will look at it, go ahead.
Q I show you what's been marked for identification purposes as Commonwealth Exhibit 25, would you look at that, please?
A Yes.
Q What is that?
A That's the board that used to run behind the two seats of our van.
Q Now, you said the two seats of your van, would you describe what you mean by that for the jury?
A There was just two separate seats in the front of the van with a center console.
Q And there's nothing - - was there a separate driver's seat and a passenger seat?
A Yes.
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Q And what do you mean by a console?A Just a thing that came out where you could sit drinks on.
Q Was there any seating in the van behind the two seats that you have just described?
A No.
Q Where was that floor board located?
A Directly in the back, right across the two seats, right down towards the floor.
Q Where and how was Mrs. Wilson put in to the van?
A Through the side sliding door.
Q But specifically you stated to the jury that she was secured?
A Yes.
Q Explain again using and making reference to that board.
A Well, her hands were tied like this and her neck around that board right there, her legs were tied around the other side of it.
Q So she was basically on the floor of the van?
A Yes, she was? (sic)
Q Is that right?
A She was, yes.
Q Could she move?
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A No.Q So she had electrical tape around her mouth?
A Yes.
Q Her hands and upper body and her legs, her lower body, were secured; is that right?
A Yes.
Q What happened next?
A Then we left my house.
Q Where did you go?
A We went out towards some golf shop, Golan's Golf Shop, or something, I don't know what the name of it is, we were on our way out to the Carlberg Road and he wanted to go out and see if his friend or buddy, he called him his buddy, was home, it's the one that he was trying to get a hold of all day.
Q Did you go there?
A Yes.
Q Who was driving?
A I drove until we got the (sic) Falconer Sewage Plant and then Jay drove from there. He just wanted me to drive him through town because he didn't have his license.
Q Where did you go once Buckley drove?
A We went to some house.
Q At that time do you know whose house it was?
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A No.Q Now do you know who (sic) house it was?
A I went to that same house about almost a year after that.
Q Whose house did you come to realize that to be?
A A Foster.
Q What happened at the house?
A Jay went up and knocked at the door and went up to the side door and then came down and got a piece of paper and an ink pen out of the van and wrote a note and went and stuck it on the door.
Q Did you have any conversation with Buckley at this time as to what was happening?
A Yes.
Q What were you talking about?
A I asked him what he was going to do.
Q Pardon.
A I asked him what he was doing.
Q Why did you ask him that?
A He had a woman tied up in the back of my van.
Q Did you know that that was going to happen? When you got up at 7:00 or whatever time you arose on this particular Wednesday, did you know that this chain of events was going to take place?
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A No.Q So now you have your parents' van?
A Yes.
Q You have a woman bound and tied up to this floor board?
A Yes.
Q You asked Buckley what's going to happen?
A Yes.
Q What did he tell you?
A He told me all he wanted was her money.
Q Did he give you any further explanation?
A Not at that time, no.
Q Did you ask him what was going to happen if ever got caught or anything like that?
A Not at that time, no.
Q So you're now at this house who belongs to who?
A Foster.
Q You see Buckley write a note; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Did you leave that area?
A Yes
Q Who was driving?
A Jay.
Q Where did you go next?
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A To the Carlberg Road.Q Carlberg Road. What happened there?
A We sat on the left-hand side of the road and we were drinking a beer and he told me that he was going to drop her off right across the road and then he told me he couldn't - - well, he used the expression he couldn't shit in his own backyard.
Q What did he mean by that? In your opinion how did you interpret that remark?
A His sister's house was like kind of like right across the road up a little way, but it was right there.
Q Is it visible from where you first pulled off to the left?
A Yes.
Q What did you do after you left that area?
A We just drove down across the road and went down in the field.
Q Went in to what?
A In to a field, there is a gravel pit behind some corn field.
Q Gravel pit or corn field?
A It was a gravel pit inside a corn field.
Q I see. Who was driving?
A Jay was.
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Q What did you do in that area?A We went down to the pit area and that's when he decided, you know, he couldn't drop her off there so we left.
Q That's where he decided what?
A He couldn't drop her off there, he didn't want to.
Q Is that where he made the statement you just made?
A Yes.
Q About not - - what did he say?
A Not shitting in his own back yard.
Q Did you leave the area?
A Yes.
Q What happened as you were leaving the area?
A Yes, we got almost to the road and started spinning so Jay got out and pushed to add a little bit of weight to the back of the van and I got in the driver's seat.
Q Were you able to get the vehicle free?
A Yes.
Q Did you leave that area?
A Yes.
Q Who was driving?
A I was.
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Q So up to that point in time, from the time you left your house and went to the Foster's house, went to the Carlberg Road, the little lane, gravel pit and corn field, Buckley was driving and you got stuck and now you're driving; is that right?A Yes.
Q Did you have any conversation at that time?
A I asked him where we were going to go and I told him - - he told me he would tell me where we were going as we were going.
Q Where did you go?
A We went - - we turned left at the Carlberg Road and went down in to Kiantone and went straight across the intersection and across the little bridge and another road and come out on the main road that comes in to Warren, 62.
Q U.S. 62?
A Yes.
Q You're driving; right?
A Yes.
Q What's Buckley doing?
A He's in the back of the van.
Q What is he doing, if you know?
A He was looking through Mrs. Wilson's purse.
Q Was he saying anything to you at that time?
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A No, I was just driving.Q And you're traveling in which direction, if you know, from Jamestown-Falconer?
A South, I guess.
Q Are you coming from Jamestown-Falconer towards Warren?
A Yes.
Q Did you come in to Pennsylvania to the best of your knowledge?
A Yes.
Q What happened next?
A We just kept driving, then we got down by the Akeley turn off and right before we got to there he got up and told me that we missed the turn.
Q He got up and said what?
A That we missed our turn.
Q So what did you do when he said that?
A I went and drove down that little Akeley Road and went across the bridge and went down like a four corners' turn around and came back.
CEX26
Q I'm going to ask you to look at what has been marked as Commonwealth's Exhibit 26, would you take a look at that, please? Is that familiar to you?
A Yes.
Q Would you, please, use that pointer and get
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off the stand and stand to the left of the drawing facing the jury please? Would you indicate where Route 62 is on that diagram?A This road right here (indicating).
Q Jamestown is in which direction?
A This direction.
Q Warren is in which direction?
A This one down here.
Q As you were coming in to Pennsylvania you were coming in which direction on that map or diagram?
A Towards Warren.
Q Indicate to the jury.
A From this way to this way (indicating).
Q What did you do? You're driving at the time?
A Yes.
Q What did you do as you approached this particular intersection?
A Turned on this road.
Q You made a left turn on to that road?
A Yes.
Q Where did you go?
A I went down to - - like there was a four corners with a little store or something and turned around right there and went back.
Q Was there a stop sign? Do you recall whether
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there was a stop sign?A There was a stop sign right in there.
Q You turned left there, went down to the little turn, made a U-turn and came back; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q What did you do when you got back to the main road or Route 62?
A Once we crossed the bridge and we were right in this area here somewhere, Jay opened up the sliding door and just cracked it, opened maybe a foot, foot and a half and commenced to throwing things out.
Q What did you do once you got to the intersection?
A I stopped and went back towards Jamestown.
Q You made a right-hand turn towards the intersection?
A Yes.
Q Is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And headed back north?
A Yes.
MR. MASSA: The Commonwealth moves the introduction of Commonwealth's Exhibit 26.
MR. SMITH: No objection.
THE COURT: Admitted.
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Q So you made a turn at the Akeley intersection, crossed the bridge, made a U-turn and came back to the intersection and made a right?A Yes.
Q You headed now back to Jamestown?
A Yes.
Q Did you go back to Jamestown?
A No.
Q Where did you go?
A We turned and it was left on some little road, I don't know what the road was called. It was just - - it was like the first left going back towards, you know, towards Jamestown.
Q Are you going back - - you're on 62 heading north toward Jamestown?
A Yes.
Q And you're driving?
A Yes.
Q Did you know where you were going?
A No.
Q Did you know what your destination was?
A No.
Q Why did you go where you went?
A That's where I was told to go.
Q By whom?
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A Buckley.Q So you were told to take a left?
A Yes.
Q Your recollection was the first left going north after the Akeley intersection; is that right?
A Yes.
Q Where did you go?
A From there we went up a hill and next thing I remember was going past a school and then wound up on Lindell Road.
Q Is that the area that has been referred to during the course of today's proceedings as the crime scene?
A Yes.
Q Now, had you ever been at this - - prior to this point in time prior to May 18th? Had you ever been at that place before in your life?
A No.
Q Did you know where you were?
A No.
Q If you were told, you know, a week later to go back there could you have done that?
A I tried, and no, I couldn't.
Q But at that point in time you did not know where you were?
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A No.Q Were you directed to stop?
A Yes.
Q By?
A Buckley.
Q Where did you stop?
A On the right-hand side of the road.
Q Was there anything unusual about where you stopped or anything that you can remember?
A No.
Q Do you know why you stopped there other than the fact that you were told by Buckley to stop there?
A No, I assume that's where he was going to let Mrs. Wilson out.
Q Pardon.
A I assume that's where he was going to let Mrs. Wilson out.
Q You stopped your van there?
A Yes.
Q What happened?
A I shut the van off, then Jay told me to get out and come around to the side of the van so I did and he took the keys out of the ignition, rolled up the driver's side window and locked the door.
Q Now, how many doors were there in your folks'
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van?A There's two double back doors, sliding door on the side and passenger and driver's door.
Q The door in the front seat for the driver and passenger?
A Yes.
Q In the portion of the van behind the driver and passenger seat, are there windows?
A Yes.
Q Where?
A There's two towards the top of the sliding door and there is two of them in the back on the back.
Q Are there windows on the driver's side?
A No.
Q You stopped at the scene, did you get out of the van?
A Yes.
Q What happened?
A I walked around to the side door and he opened it up.
Q Who opened it up?
A Jay.
Q What happened?
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A Then he stood Mrs. Wilson up, got her out of the van and stood her up.Q Well, you have told us that she is secured to this post, which is again, the rear seat in the back of your van?
A Yes.
Q What happened?
A I don't know. By that point of time she got untied from there and we got - - she was totally untied from that board.
Q Was she totally untied and free; are you saying?
A No, she was still tied up, you know, her hands and legs, but she was free from that board.
Q You demonstrated to the jury that her hands were tied, something in this manner?
A Yes.
Q And her feet were bound?
A Yes.
Q At one point in time she was secured to that floor board?
A Yes.
Q But by the time you got to where you finally stopped she had been freed from the floor board?
A Yes.
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Q But still secured?A Yes.
Q How was she secured?
A Her hands and legs were tied.
Q You said that she exited the vehicle, got out of the vehicle; right?
A Yes.
Q Did she do that herself or did you assist her?
A Jay just slid her right where the side door opens up and stood her up.
Q What happened then?
A We started walking down in to like a path area in the woods.
Q Pardon.
A There was like a path area down in to the woods.
Q Do you remember whether or not there was any running water or a creek in that area?
A There was a ravine where we stopped at, but I don't remember if there was - -
Q Was it to the right or left of the pathway?
A It was right on the front of the pathway.
Q You said you started walking down the pathway?
A Yes.
Q In what order? There was you, Buckley and
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Kathy Wilson, how did you proceed in to the woods?A I was walking next to Jay, Jay would have been on my right-hand side and he had one hand around Mrs. Wilson's arm and she was kind of walking in front of us.
Q Was the electrical tape still around her mouth?
A Yes.
Q What happened as you entered in to the woods?
A Well, he stopped to cut off the leg bindings so she could walk and once he did she took off to the right, about ten feet or so and then she just stopped and Jay ran after her.
Q What did he do?
A Knocked her down.
Q Pardon.
A Knocked her down.
Q Did he say anything to her at that time?
A He told her if she tired (sic) to run again he would kill her.
Q Did he do or say anything else to her at that time?
A No. Well, he stood her up again and took a muscle shirt and like the shoulder pieces that come
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around your shoulders, he took them and placed them around her head to use like a leash to keep her from running.Q To what?
A Just to walk her down in to the woods the rest of the way.
Q Did you see him knock her down?
A Yes.
Q And you saw what you just described, he used the muscle shirt and put it around her head and shoulders as a leash?
A Yes.
Q What happened next?
A Right after that he did that that's when he removed the tape from her mouth.
Q How did he do that?
A This is like towards the back, he just pulled out where her hair was and took his knife and slit the tape and pulled it off.
Q What happened next?
A Then we kept walking and she started pleading with him not to hurt her and she continually pled with him and we got down to the - -
Q What was she saying, if you remember?
A She just said, "Please don't hurt me. I'll do
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anything." and she mentioned that she had a family at home and, you know, she just kept continuously told him not to hurt her.Q What happened after he put the muscle shirt and leash on and she started pleading?
A They began walking to the ravine.
Q What happened next?
A We got down to the end of the ravine and I just kept walking straight down like the path and away from them and once we got to the ravine Jay called me over.
Q What did he say to you?
A Well, he told me - - he says, "Come over here and give me a hand.".
Q How did you respond?
A I walked over there.
Q Well, did you say anything to him?
A I asked him what he was doing.
Q What did he respond?
A What he wanted.
Q What did he respond?
A He told me, he says, "Remove her clothes," and I told him no. I said, "Why are you doing this, why don't you just let her go?" and then he started getting angry.
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Q And?A Just continued telling me to remove her clothes, remove her clothes and when I continuously refused he told me if I didn't do what I was told to do he was going to do the same to me.
Q What did you do?
A I told him, "I can't, her hands are bound." and he just, "Remove them, take them off.". So I began to unbutton her blouse and skirt.
Q You said her hands were bound?
A Yes.
Q But the bindings around her feet were cut?
A Yes.
Q The tape was taken off of her mouth?
A Yes.
Q You said you weren't going to, but eventually what happened?
A Eventually he told me that he was going to do the same to me if I didn't to (sic) what what (sic) he said and I told him I didn't want nothing to do with it and he said, "If you'd let me use the van this morning you wouldn't have anything to do with it. (sic)
Q I'm sorry. He said if you would have let me
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use your van what?A He said, "If you would have let me use your van this morning you wouldn't have nothing to do with it.".
Q What happened next?
A Then I removed the buttons and again he told me to take it off.
Q Let's go one step at a time. What do you remember? You removed the buttons?
A I unbuttoned it.
Q You unbuttoned her blouse?
A Yes.
Q What did he say to you?
A There were two buttons where her hands were like this, there was two buttons still buttoned, he said, "Take it off." and I said, "I can't.".
Q Why did you say that?
A Because her hands were in the way.
Q Go ahead.
A Then he told me, he says, "Well, take off the rest of her clothes." and I said, "No." you know and then he told me to take of his - - finish taking off her blouse and I said, "No." and then he said, "Are you wimping out?" you know and he told me to remove her bra and - - well, her blouse was still on, so I
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stood kind off (sic) to the one side of her and unbuttoned it and he told me to take it off and I kept on refusing, then he got upset and threw her down and ripped her clothes off.Q Did her blouse come off?
A Yes.
Q How?
A Once he cut - - there was the flannel shirt, the flannel shirt was around her hands with a knot and he just kind of slit the knot, took the shirt off her wrists and then grabbed a hold of the back collar of the shirt and pulled it off.
Q The back collar of the shirt or blouse?
A The blouse.
Q What happened to her bra?
A He removed that.
Q Pardon.
A That was unbuttoned, that didn't get removed until after he knocked her down.
Q Was she still wearing anything when he knocked her to the ground?
A Yes.
Q What?
A Her - - everything from like - - from her waist down, her shirt was the only thing removed.
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Q What happened next?A Then he grabbed a hold of the back of her skirt and ripped it off.
Q And?
A The he began having sex with her.
Q What was her reaction at this time?
A She was screaming and crying, just continuously begging, pleading not to hurt her.
Q What did you see Buckley doing at that time?
A He was on the back of her and she was face down and he was on the back of her having sex with her.
Q Pardon.
A Having sex with her.
Q Was he having sexual intercourse with her?
A Yes.
Q Where were you at this time?
A Standing off to the left-hand side.
Q What were you doing?
A Just standing there.
Q Was he saying anything to you or were you having any conversation?
A No, not during that time. When he was almost done, I guess, right before he murdered her he told me to start picking up his stuff.
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Q Did Buckley remove his clothes?A No, not totally, no.
Q What did you see him do with his clothes if anything?
A His pants were unsnapped, that was about it? (sic)
Q You said that mention was made about - - what did he say?
A He told me to start picking up his stuff.
Q What did you do?
A I started picking everything up and then he told me he just wanted his stuff and I was picking up everything, her stuff and his stuff and he said, "All I want is what belongs to me.".
Q What items, if anything, did you pick up?
A I picked up the tape, I picked up his flannel shirt and I picked up a piece of twine and that was it.
Q Now, you did this as Buckley was still having sex with Mrs. Wilson?
A Yes.
Q What did you observe next?
A I had my back to him, I was approximately maybe fifteen feet away or so and I heard Jay yell, "Ouch, you bitch." and right then I turned around and that's when he stabbed her.
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Q What did you see?A I had seen he had his knee in to her back and he pulled up and just came down and she started screaming.
Q Did you hear anything from her?
A I turned around real quick after I heard that, I turned back around and then I just heard like - - I don't know how to explain it, it sounded like someone getting the wind knocked out of them and that's the last I heard.
Q Did you see any more than one thrust with his hand?
A No.
Q You heard a noise after you saw the first thrust; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q What did Buckley do?
A He then got up and put on his pants, put his jacket on, just draped it over his shoulders and stuck something on the inside of his jacket and took his knife that he had in his hand and put it inside his jacket and we left, started walking back towards the van.
Q As all this was happening why didn't you leave?
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A Excuse me?Q As all this was happening why didn't you leave?
A He had the keys to the van? (sic)
Q When did he get the keys to the van?
A Right when we got there.
Q What did he do?
A Took the keys out of the ignition when he rolled up the window and locked up the door and put them in his pocket.
Q So now the two of you are back at your van?
A Yes.
Q What happened at the van?
A Once we got to the van I opened up the side door and went to jump in and Jay told me, he said, "I'll be right back.".
Q I thought you told us that the van was locked.
A Just the driver's side door was locked.
Q So you got in through what door?
A Through the sliding door.
Q You got in the van?
A Yes.
Q And what did Buckley do or say?
A He said he would be right back.
Q What did he do?
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A He said he was going to go down and move her, hide her rather.Q What did he say?
A He said he was going to go down and hide her.
Q What did he do?
A He went back in the woods.
Q Did you go with him?
A No.
Q Did he return to the van?
A Yes.
Q What did he do when he came back that time?
A I was sitting in the driver's seat and he came around and unlocked the door and told me that I was going to drive, to slide over in the other seat, and I did, and he got in and before - - right before he shut the door he reached in to his jacket and pulled out the camera and stuck it in around the back of the seat by an Arby's Roast Beef bag.
Q Had you ever seen that camera before?
A Yes.
Q Where did you see it?
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A It was my sister's, my oldest sister's.Q What happened next? How did Buckley get a hold of that camera?
A Stole it.
Q Stole it from your sister?
A Yes.
Q What happened next?
A We left and started heading back towards New York.
Q Buckley is driving?
A Yes.
Q Did you have any conversation?
A When he first started up the van and we pulled out, went up on the top of that hill, there is a like a hill that goes up and then it comes down, we turned around right by a barn, turned around and came back and, you know, I asked him, "Why did you do that?", you know, and he told me, he says, "I'm sorry, all I wanted was her money and to get a quick piece." and that was basically the whole conversation all the way back to New York.
Q Did he say anything else to you or did you say anything else to him?
A No, he asked me what I was going to do, you know, later on and I told him that I had to get home
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and we just continued driving and then he told me again, he says, "Well, if you'd have let me use the van you wouldn't be here.". Then I asked him, I says, "Well, you know we're going to be in a lot of trouble. What are we going to do?". So he said, "You don t got nothing to worry about as long as you don't say nothing, you didn't do anything, you have nothing to worry about.".Q Did he give you anything at that time?
A He gave me a berinski (ph) slug. deer slut (sic) and told me that was for me if - - I can't remember the words he used, he said if I squealed on him.
Q And you leave the crime scene, you leave the area where Kathy Wilson was raped and murdered; is that right?
A Yes.
Q Buckley is driving the van?
A Yes.
Q You're going back to New York. Where did you head?
A Back North, toward New York.
Q Toward New York State?
A Yes.
Q Did you make any stops?
A Yes, we stopped on this one muddy road, it's
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kind of like a skidding path, you know, a log road and just got out and stood in front of the van and that's where he took the film from the camera and stuck it inside the money bag and took everything from his pocket, stuck it inside there and some black credit card, I'm not sure exactly what card, with Mrs. Wilson's name on it.Q Do you remember anything about the bank bag?
A Yes.
Q What?
A It was just like a bluish-green colored bank bag.
Q Anything else happen on this first stop off?
A No, he just told me he was supposed to meet somebody and he finished putting everything that he wanted in to the bank bag and stuck everything else in to this Arby's bag, like one of the plastic bags you hang on the radio of your car and then we left.
Q Do you know whether or not or do you recall whether or not you or Buckley left anything at that area?
A Yes, when we turned around to get back in to the van I noticed there was a tan shirt and like a part of a paper bag, it wasn't a full paper sack, it
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was like ripped, you know, flat and we we (sic) left there and I told him - - he said, "I have everything we want." and we left there.Q You left that area?
A Yes.
Q Where did you go next?
A We went in to New York, went up Foote Avenue by the Kwik Fill gas station, it's a little flower place, and that's where I took over driving and I drove from there.
Q You drove from there, where did you head?
A To the Foote Avenue Quality.
Q What happened there?
A We stopped at the Foote Avenue Quality and he was going to get a hold of his buddy, as he referred to him as, and I went in and got a pack of chewing gum to cover up the smell of beer on my breath and he went to use the phone.
Q Did you leave that area - - this is not the Falconer Quality Market, this is a different Quality Market in the Jamestown area?
A Yes, this is on Foote Avenue in Jamestown.
Q You're driving at this time?
A Yes.
Q Where did you go when you left there?
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A Went to buy - - the Mr. Donut in Jamestown, the Probation Office right there in the back parking lot, that's where I dropped off Jay.Q Where did you go?
A Home.
Q What did you do when you got home?
A I went in to the house and - - on my way home I stopped and picked up my fiancee and say (sic) from my older sister's house and, you know, then we both went home together, we went in and was watching a movie on the television.
Q Now, you had just seen a woman raped and murdered; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q You have told this jury under oath?
A Yes.
Q Did you say or do anything to anybody at that time?
A No, Brenda asked me what was wrong, you know, and I didn't tell her nothing until later on that night.
Q Did you see Buckley later on that night?
A Yes.
Q When did you next see him?
A It was, I'd say, approximately - - might have
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been 7:30, 8:00, somewhere in there.Q What were the circumstances when you next saw him?
A My mom asked me to run over to the store for her to get something.
Q And?
A So I did and when I pulled out of the driveway and started up towards Davidson's, Jay was walking down the road.
Q What happened?
A So I stopped and picked him up.
Q Did you go anywhere with him?
A Went over to the grocery store and - - first, we stopped at the foot of the road at the stop sign and I seen two people that I knew and I beeped the horn at them and Jay told me, he says, "Don't call them over, I have to talk to you." and they were on their way over and they got in the van and road over to the grocery store with us.
Q What happened with you and Buckley?
A We went back by Davidson's where I dropped Tim and Brian off and he then asked me if I would run him up to the Chautauqua Mall.
Q He meaning?
A Jay.
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Q What did you do?A We went up to the Chautauqua Mall parking lot and drove around to the Sears and Quality side of the Chautauqua Mall and parked next to Mrs. Wilson's van and he got out and jumped in the driver's seat of the van and took the bottom of his shirt and wiped the steering wheel off with it, behind, around, he wiped the door handle off and jumped back in my van and we left.
Q Did you leave the Chautauqua Mall area?
A Yes.
Q What did you do?
A Went back to my house.
Q What did you do? You and Buckley are together still?
A Yes.
Q What happened when you got back to your house?
A I got back to the house and I brought the stuff I got from the store in to my Mom and sat there for a few minutes and walked back outside and then sat in the backyard for, I don't know, 20, 25 minutes talking to Jay and then went down, back down in to the basement and where he, you know, started to wash off the knife.
Q How was he washing off the knife?
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A There was a sink down there and he just began to run water off it, then he took the black electrical tape which he wrapped around the handle, the handle was cracked on the knife, there was tape wrapped around it and he took that off and he asked me if I had any sand paper or anything and I gave him a piece of paper kind of like an emery cloth, something real fine, it was sandpaper, but it was real super, super fine and I gave that to him, then I told him to take it outside before he made a mess.Q What happened next?
A He took care of it.
Q He what?
A He just put it away.
Q Did you see what he did with it?
A He stuck it back in his jacket? (sic)
Q In his jacket?
A Yes.
MR. MASSA: Your Honor, may I approach the bench?
(Sidebar discussion off the record.)
THE COURT: You may step down Mr. Brown. Ladies and gentlemen, it's ten after five and we have reached a good point to stop for the day and we'll recess until tomorrow morning at 9:00. Of course, tomorrow morning at 9:00 be present, take your respective seats and
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we'll commence the case again. Simply to remind you, you are not permit (sic) anyone to approach you and talk to you about the case and, obviously, you're not to discuss the facts at this point among yourselves. So we'll see you tomorrow morning at 9:00.(Court was recessed at 5:13 p.m.)
[END OF TESTIMONY ON MAY 6 - VOL I CONTINUES . . .]
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