494

THE COURT: You may step down.

MR. SMITH: I call James Schwab.

JAMES SCHWAB, called as a witness was sworn and examined, testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. SMITH:

Q Please state your name and address for the record?

A My name is James Schwab, 11512 West Falconer Street in Falconer, New York.

Q What is you occupation?

A I am self employed as the owner of James B. Schwab Company.

Q You are Kathy Wilson's employer on May 18, 1988?

A That's correct.

Q Mr. Schwab, I want to ask you prior to May 18, 1988 did you have any conversations with Kathy Wilson with regard to her marital status?

A Yes.

Q What was the nature of those conversations?

A She had confided in me that they were having a little difficulty at home with a drinking problem.

Q A drinking problem of hers or - -

A Of her husband's.

Q Did she seem upset when she confided this to you?

A Oh, quite upset, crying, upset.

495

Q Crying?

A Yes.

Q Do you know approximately what time that you had these conversations with her?

A Somewhere in the vicinity of January, February of 1988, late January of 1988.

Q Did Mrs. Wilson ever tell you she was going to leave Mr. Wilson?

A She never actually said that she was going to leave Mr. Wilson, but she had asked me for some monetary support if she did leave Mr. Wilson, she said if she did.

Q Did she ask you or indicate to you that she needed a divorce attorney?

A She had asked me if I was aware of some divorce people that would - - she could talk with.

Q Did you recommend any one to her?

A I recommended a Mr. Robbins, Dale Robbins.

Q Is he an attorney in Jamestown?

A Yes.

Q You have given several statements to the police in this case initially; is that correct?

A Several, yes.

Q When they undertook the initial investigation. In the latter stages of her - - let me ask you this - - to your personal knowledge was Mark Wilson a jealous

496

individual?

A I would say he is a jealous individual, maybe, he may be, he possibly could be, yes.

Q To your knowledge was Kathy Wilson having an affair?

A No, not to my knowledge.

Q Had she been dressing differently prior to her death than she had before?

A Well, I hadn't noticed, but some of the other employees had and they brought it to my attention after the fact that she had disappeared and it may have been truth.

Q Do you recollect making a statement to the police that Kathy Wilson was somebody that was "ripe for the picking"?

A Well, I mean, again, in this 10 month period there was a lot of theory that was kicked around between the police and myself and that may have come out in a conversation, yes.
DEX157
Q Mr. Schwab, I show you what has been marked for identification purposes as Defendant's Exhibit Number 157, which is a statement to the FBI dated 12/2/88 and ask you if you recollect on that date giving a statement to the FBI?

A I think that was one of our theory meetings, yes, yes.

497

MR. SMITH: Move for admission of Defendant's Exhibit Number 157.

MR MASSA: No objection.

THE COURT: Admitted.

Q Mr. Schwab, without having you read the whole statement, I would ask you to read for the jury the highlighted portions.

A " The core problem appeared to be her husband's excessive drinking. Schwab advised that he is personally aware of Kathy Wilson's marital problems because on several occasions she confided in him. On those occasions she was very distraught and reduced to weeping. - - he felt that Kathy Wilson was ripe for an affair. Schwab denied personally having any kind of extramarital relationship with Kathy Wilson. He surmised that he may have been able to had he chose, but did not. He did acknowledge that on a number of occasions Kathy Wilson requested that they have lunch together to talk about things. He always feels somewhat guilty and self-conscious about these lunches but nothing of a personal nature. Schwab further advised that on occasion Kathy Wilson went to lunch with Dave Lipsey. Lipsey, who is divorced, told Schwab on one occasion that he had never had an affair with Kathy Wilson although he acknowledged that it had crossed his mind."

Q Were you concerned about her going to lunch with

498

Lipsey or concerned about affairs in the office?

A I am concerned about anything that goes on internally, yes.

Q Do you think Mark Wilson was, in any way, jealous of Kathy Wilson from your observations?

MR. MASSA: It's been asked and answered.

MR. SMITH: Jealous of Kathy Wilson, different question.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A I don't have any direct information to state that he was or would be.

Q I show you a statement dated 5/26/88, a police report and your statement to an Officer Payne.

MR. SMITH: Move for admission of Exhibit 158.

MR. MASSA: No objection.

THE COURT: Admitted.

Q Would you read that statement, please?

A The highlighted area or the complete statement?

Q Right here.

A ". . occasionally. Mr. Schwab said Mark would constantly put Kathy down about her golf game. He, Mark Wilson, would also hit on Sylvia and Judy in front of his wife. She, Kathy, would get very embarrassed and have to apologize for Mark's behavior. Schwab then continued to tell us about Kathy's personality. He said Kathy was very well liked and very organized. She ran the office for him

499
and she was very dependable. He noted that because of Kathy's recent success and for the fact that she was doing so well, Mark was jealous of her for this. Schwab said that Mark was not going well in his line of work and he has always been jealous of her and of Kathy's success especially since she got promoted to office manager at James B. Schwab Company. Mr. Schwab also was told by Kathy that Mark had accused her of running around or cheating on him. Schwab said he did not believe she was having an extramarital affair, but he felt that she was looking for an out in the marriage or to quote Schwab ‘Ripe for the picking'. Mr. Schwab also told of a time around Christmas 1987 that Kathy had found Mark at the Journey's End Motel in Falconer. Kathy had told Schwab that she found Mark on the floor in one of the rooms and he was hyperventilating and she had him transported to the psychiatric ward at Jamestown General Hospital. Kathy told Mr. Schwab that she was afraid Mark would commit suicide and he needed help.

Both Lipsey and Schwab felt that due to their home life and problems with Mark, they felt that she was susceptible for an extramarital affair or boyfriend type of situation. They added that they did not know for certain if a boyfriend existed and would not dismiss that as a possibility. Both Schwab and Lipsey recall remarks made by Kathy in the past such as ‘It's hard to be romantic' and

500

‘There is no romance'. They interpreted these remarks as being that she is tired of the abuse and problems that exist between her and Mark and it is hard to care and love a person who abuses you. Investigator Conlan and I then left the Schwab Company and went to the Falconer Quality Store - -"
Q That's the last part of your statement?

A That's correct.

Q Is that what you told police? Is that accurate?

A Yes.

Q You made that statement on 5/26/88?

A If that's the date, yes.

Q You're currently being sued by Mark Wilson; right?

A On a Workman's Compensation Claim and this last week in receipt of a personal liability claim.

Q Suing for a million bucks claiming you are negligent in the death of Kathy Wilson somehow or other?

A Right.

Q You just got served with that lawsuit?

A Last week.

Q So when you made these statements to the police you weren't doing it in retaliation for any lawsuit he just served you with?

A No. Again, this was between the fact when she was

501

missing and before her remains had been found. I mean we were searching every avenue at that point to come up with some justice.

Q Okay. Well, we're still at it.

A I see that.

MR. SMITH: No further questions.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. MASSA:

Q Mr. Schwab, this lawsuit is for Workmen's Compensation?

A Yes, New York State Workman's Compensations.

Q Mr. Schwab, you stated and very candidly categorized your meetings with law enforcement officers in the days and weeks following Kathy Wilson's disappearance as "theory meetings"?

A Yes.

Q Is that right?

A Yes.

Q That's the terminology you used?

A Yes.

Q At the point in time when you were meeting with and discussing your feelings and thoughts with the police, they were investigating a missing person report; is that correct?

A Correct.

502

Q The entire community was galvanized around this missing person report, was it not, sir?

A Yes.

Q Including yourself as Kathy Wilson's employer?

A Certainly.

Q And you had the highest - - and I mean no innuendo, the highest personal regard for Kathy Wilson as an employee?

A Absolutely. Absolutely.

Q Prior to May 18m 1988 when was the last time you socialized with Kathy and Mark Wilson?

A I can't quite say.

Q Let me rephrase the question, sir. You have an employee/employer relationship with Kathy Wilson?

A Yes.

Q You were not close personal friends with she and her husband; were you, sir?

A No.

Q Had you ever been to her house for supper, for example?

A No.

Q Have they ever been to your house for supper?

A No.

Q The impression that you had relative to possible marital difficulties involving a drinking problem with Mr.

503

Wilson that was focused in December and January, December of 1987 and January of 1988; is that correct?

A Yes.

Q And do you know of your own personal knowledge whether or not Mark and Kathy Wilson took a vacation trip to the State of Florida?

A They vacationed after she had had that initial crying session. She, you know, asked what perhaps I could advise her to do so and I had said try some sort of a rehabilitation program or take a nice long trip somewhere and try and work things out and they did, in fact, I believe in about April of that year they took a trip, yes, to Florida.

Q Were you aware of the fact, sir, that Kathy Wilson was seeking to improve herself at the time by attending college courses or getting some sort of college courses under her belt?

A Oh, yes.

Q Were you aware of the fact that she, and no disparagement towards yourself or your company, was looking for other employment?

A I have been told that, I was not aware of that at the time.

Q You were not aware of it?

A No.

504

Q And was Kathy Wilson on or about May 18, 1988, did she do some personal banking for you from time to time other than making deposits during the course of the business day?

A Personal banking for me?

Q Yes.

A No.

Q Personal banking involved with the business not your personal banking as an individual?

A She would voluntarily on occasion and ask to take the daily deposits if it were convenient for her.

Q Did you have a petty cash account or - -

A Oh, yes.

Q From time to time would you ask Kathy to change a hundred bill for you?

A Well, okay, I see what you're asking. We maintain petty cash in the amount of about $200 and there would be times when I would have large bills that I would ask for change and they did not want to depreciate it or relieve the change from the petty cash and she would personally take it from her purse at that time and on two separate occasions she would break down a hundred dollar bill for me from her personal purse, yes.

Q I would ask you to answer this question yes or no and then, please, feel free to expand if you would like.

505

Prior to May 18, 1988 do you have any personal knowledge of Kathy Wilson having an extramarital affair?

A Absolutely not.

Q Absolutely not?

A No.

Q As of May 18, 1988, did you have any personal knowledge of the financial status of Mark Wilson's company?

A No.

Q As of May 18, 1988, to the best of your knowledge and information, Mr. Schwab, were Kathy Wilson and Mark Wilson living together as husband and wife?

A Yes.

Q They were living at the same domicile?

A Absolutely.

Q And in your various interviews or "theory sessions" with law enforcement officers, you were trying to think of any thing and everything, were you not, sir, that could possibly unravel this tragic mystery?

A I was trying to cooperate in any way, shape or form to answer the questions asked of me.

Q Including, in your own words, theorizing?

A Exactly.

Q And isn't that exactly what you were doing with good intentions?

A Trying to help and it may have been theory, yes.

506

Q Thank you.

MR. MASSA: No further questions.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. SMITH:

Q You were theorizing when you told the police specifically those things that Kathy Wilson had told you; right?

A No, that is, in fact, fact.

Q You weren't theorizing when you gave the name of Dale Robbins to Kathy Wilson as a divorce attorney?

A No.

Q You don't know how much money Kathy Wilson had in her purse on May 18, 1988?

A No, I don't.

MR. SMITH: No further questions.

RECROSS EXAMINATION

Q Just a question or two. That discussion about a divorce attorney, that took place prior to the trip to Florida that you described; is that correct?

A Yes.

MR. MASSA: No further questions.

MR. SMITH: I call Irene Spetz.

MR. MASSA: May Counsel approach?

(Whereupon, there was a sidebar discussion off record.)

507

Previous

INDEX

Next