| "Statement" of 4 - 23 - 91 |
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This is a REAL dandy. This is Brown's last statement, 18 months after his initial statements (and his arrest) and 2 weeks before Buckley's trial. This is the first time Brown has Kathy Wilson tied up in his basement, which is what he testifies to at the trial. The statement before this March 6, 1991 she was taken to Buckley's campsite (which was the first (and last) of THAT version). Also, for the first time, he has himself going with Buckley to the Chautauqua Mall to wipe fingerprints from Kathy Wilson's van. Shelly Anderson!? - Page 160
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Statement/Report April 23, 1991 |
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MR. SMITH: I think I already moved Defendant's 59, Your Honor.
(Document marked Defendant's Exhibit No. 60.)
Q. Let me show what has been marked for identification purposes as Defendant's Exhibit 60 dated 4-23-91. Is that the last statement you made to the police before this trial started?
A. I don't know.
Q. Well, let me ask you. Do you recollect any other statements after 4-23-91 that you made to the police or the district attorney?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You can't recollect. And 4-23 is what, three
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weeks ago?A. Something like that.
Q. So this story should be 100 percent accurate right? Should match what you told in trial, right? What you told Monday and Tuesday, right?
A. I don't know.
Q. Well, let's see if it does.
THE COURT: I think I am going to recess. Court will recess for 15 minutes.
(Brief recess taken.)
MR. SMITH: Mr. Brown, we are now at your statement of 4-23-91, Defendant's Exhibit No. 60. If I haven't done so already, I move for admission of Defendant's Exhibit 60.
MR. MASSA: No objection.
THE COURT: Admitted.
BY MR. SMITH:
Q. And it says - - it says, on 4-23-91 this officer received a phone call at his residence from Warren County District Attorney Joseph Massa who advised him that the attorneys for Mike Brown were in his office, and Brown was having a real problem, and Massa felt this officer might be able to talk to Brown. This officer went to Warren County Courthouse and met with Massa, Public Defender Thomas Bonavita and his assistant Ross McKeirnan, and ADA, Assistant District
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Attorney Maureen Flynn. It was learned from Mr. Brown - - it was learned that Mr. Brown would talk to this officer, and this officer went to the county jail and removed Brown and took him to the office of the district attorney. This officer met with Brown and APD McKeirnan. Brown seemed agitated and asked him what the problem was. He advised the following. I have 30 people telling me I was going to be in trouble when I go to prison, they told me because I am a snitch I am going to have to watch my back and everybody will be gunning for me. I think I should be getting a better deal out of this. I didn't do anything to this lady. It's just like everything else - - I mean the burglaries, I never broke into any house, I was just along. I didn't do anything to the woman. I was just along. At this time I advised Brown that the deal he got was the only deal he was going to get, and as a result of his deal he could go to jail for up to 14 years, and that we, the Commonwealth, do not sentence anybody, the judge does, and all we could tell him is what he could get for the crime he pleads guilty to ([sic]). I advised Brown to tell the truth and the whole truth. Jay Buckley is going to walk out the front door of the courthouse as a free man and he, Michael Brown, would be going out the back door of the courthouse to the county jail to start serving his time.MR. MASSA: You skipped a line.
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BY MR. SMITH:Q. I advised Brown that I know that he has minimized his involvement in the past, that if he doesn't tell us the truth and the whole truth, Jay Buckley is going to walk out the front door of the courthouse a free man, and he, Michael Brown, would be going out the back door of the courthouse to the county jail to start serving his time. I asked Brown if everything he told us in the past was truth, and he advised no, it is not. I then asked him if he was ready to tell the entire truth, and he advised yes, I am. Now we get into your latest. Mike, tell us, please, what you have not told us before. Mike Brown stated the first part of the morning is the same, Jay came to the house and asked for a ride and I told him no. He told me he was going to call Shelly Anderson and have her help him. I was at work. I got a call from Jay, and he told me he needed help. I was to meet him at Four Coins. I told Darren Braymiller, the shop foreman, I had to leave, and he said it was okay. Lie or the truth?
A. I told him I believed I also - - is the way I told him - - I heard what you read.
Q. Let's start again. I was at work. I told Darren Braymiller, the shop foreman, I had to leave, and he said it was okay. Lie or the truth? Yes or no?
A. That didn't actually happen exactly like that, no.
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Q. So then lie, right? You said Pete Sirianno the other day. You said you were sick, and you said a bunch of things (marking). But Darren Braymiller never said it was okay for you to leave. This is after they just had - - you just had this little discussion with them, right? He told me after that I went and got into a fight with him. I told Darren Braymiller I had to leave - - the shop foreman, I had to leave, and he said it was okay. He told me after that when I got into that fight with him that I let you go home early and you did not even punch out. I left and went - - is that true? Did Darren Braymiller ever tell you, I let you go home early and you did not even punch out?A. We did get in a little scuffle.
Q. Was he talking about May 18? I am talking about May 18.
A. The day I didn't punch out, yes, is the only day.
Q. He told you, referring to May 18, I let you go home early, and you did not even punch out. Darren Braymiller told you that; yes or no?
A. Not exactly, no.
Q. Not exactly, no (marking). And Darren Braymiller did not punch your time card, did he?
A. I already told you, I don't know who did. I was not there to see who did.
Q. I left and went to the Four Coins. I met Jay, and
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he told me in a few minutes this chick would be coming out, and she would have money, and we were going to follow her and rob her. A woman came out, and we followed her to Marine Bank and then went to Falconer Quality. She parked her van and went into the store, and Jay got out of the van and also went into the store. He was only inside a short time and came out and told me to move my van to the other side of the store. I pulled into the parking area on the side of the store towards town. I saw Jay walking over to the van and get inside using the driver's door. Once inside he went to the back of the van, got down, and then I saw a woman coming out of Quality, walk to her van and get in. It was just after she got inside that Jay comes forward, and then the vehicle started up and drove towards where I parked. Is that true, drove towards where you parked?A. That's correct.
Q. I saw Jay pointing or waving to follow them. Is that true?
A. That's correct.
Q. I did, and we drove out of the parking lot on the north side of the building and into an alley, Is that true?
A. That's correct.
Q. We went a couple blocks and went to the main street and down the street and that goes to my residence. Kathy Wilson was driving her van, and I was following her van.
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She pulled her van right into our driveway. I saw Shelly Anderson standing next to her car. Is that true or a lie, you saw Shelly Anderson standing next to her when you pulled into the driveway?A. It was right after we had pulled in.
Q. Is that true or not; yes or no?
A. That's not exactly the way it happened no.
THE COURT: Yes or no, Mr. Brown.
THE WITNESS: Let me explain.
THE COURT: You answer the question then you can make the explanation.
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: Now you can make your explanation.
THE WITNESS: Thank you. Like I said before, these supplement reports I gave, it's possible they could have went and typed up something a little different than what I said because they are not taped statements. I did not write the statements.
BY MR. SMITH:
Q. (Marking) So Mr. Herzog or his secretary screwed up; is that what you are saying?
A. It's possible they could have been mistaken, yes.
Q. We will ask him when he is on the stand whether he screwed up.
A. These statements, I feel he will have to explain
Q. I saw Shelly Anderson standing next to her car which was also parked in the driveway. Jay took her into the back of the van and started to tie her up. He told me to go get some tape. I went to the basement and got some tape and took it to Jay, Is that true?
A. I did go to the basement and got electrical tape and give it to Jay.
Q. What about the shed?
A. You asked me if that part right there was true. I said yes, I did do that.
Q. Why didn't you tell them about the shed?
A. I probably did. Maybe they didn't write it in.
Q. Mr. Herzog and his secretary screwed up again, right?
A. I don't know.
Q. Jay pulled - - Jay then pulled Kathy Wilson's van up next to the cellar steps, and he opened the side door and took Kathy Wilson downstairs into the basement. Is that true?
A. That's correct.
Q. Jay got in and drove her van up to the cellar steps.
A. That's correct.
Q. When Jay got out of the Wilson van and yelled at Shelly, where the hell were you. Is that true? When Jay got
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out of the Wilson van, he yelled at Shelly, where the hell were you?A. Not exactly.
Q. Not exactly. Well, let's try yes or no, Is that true, yes or no?
A. No.
Q. That's a lie, too, right (marking)? Because Shelly wasn't there at that time. When I went downstairs with Jay to take Mrs. Wilson down, the phone rang upstairs, and I went to answer it. It was Hill's Department store calling about an order or something. When Jay was downstairs taking Mrs. Wilson, is that when you got the call from Hill's?
A. It was after he had brang her down.
Q. You didn't say before that you got the call from Hill's after Jay had left and when you were sitting at the table drinking beer, did you?
A. No. In one of the other statements?
Q. We didn't mark that up as a lie when we passed that, did we?
A. I believe you probably marked it up. You marked all the lies and half the truths.
Q. I went to the basement and - - I went out the back door when I hung up the phone, and Jay had moved the Wilson van, and it was back in the driveway, and the motor was still running. Is that true?
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A. That's correct.Q. I talked to Jay, and he told me to just wait there until he came back. He got into the Wilson van and pulled out of the driveway and headed back to the front of the residence and down Lister Avenue. Shelly Anderson was following behind the Wilson van in her vehicle. In approximately ten, 15 minutes Jay and Shelly both came back in Shelly's car. Again, ten or 15 minutes, not enough time to go to Chautauqua Mall and back?
A. That's truth.
Q. You don't know where they went at all?
A. No.
Q. I wanted to get out of there when they left. I knew that this was more than just a mugging. Is that true? At that point in time did you know this was more than just a mugging?
A. It was obviously more than just a mugging. I mean he had her in my basement.
Q. Yeah. But didn't you say before in some of your other statements when I asked you, you said, gee, I had no idea? I thought he was just driving and going to let her out, and I didn't know it was more than a mugging; I thought he was just going to rob her and drop her off somewhere; I thought that's why we were traveling around. Here you say you know that when you're at your house.
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A. I didn't know he was going to murder her or nothing when he was at my house.Q. I was outside when they came back, and Shelly was driving her vehicle. He got out of Shelly's car and told me he had to take my van and then he left. That true?
A. That's correct.
Q. He asked Shelly if she would take me to get some cigarettes. I asked Shelly if she would take me to get cigarettes, Shelly took me to the corner store, I bought the cigarettes and then we went back to my house. We sat out in the driveway and talked.
A. That's correct.
Q. You say you sat in the driveway and talked?
A. Sit out by the driveway and talked for a few minutes, yes.
Q. You said before you talked on the roadway, didn't you? On the roadway from your house to this place where you got cigarettes? That's where you were driving up and down the roadway and parked, you said. You didn't say driveway before, did you?
A. Yes.
Q. You did?
A. Yes.
Q. Shelly said I don't believe that he really did this. I didn't think he would go through with it. I didn't
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think Jay was serious about this. Shelly left, and a short time later Jay came back in the van. How does Shelly know what Jay is doing if the true story is Jay has already got her in the basement and she never sees Kathy Wilson?A. Jay probably told her something about it, I guess, I don't know. I didn't ask her how she knew.
Q. To your knowledge, yes or know, (sic) does Shelly Anderson ever see Kathy Wilson on May 18, 1988?
A. No.
Q. Shelly left a short time later, and Jay came back in the van. He pulled the van up next to the cellar door. We got Wilson out of the basement. He left my house. I drove to the road near the sewer plant. Jay drove from there to Ed Foster's house. Foster wasn't home, and Jay used a piece of paper and wrote a note to Foster. The note said, meet me at Foote Avenue Quality Market, and then he put a time, but I don't remember the exact time, and he signed the note. True or false?
A. That's not exactly true.
Q. What is false about it?
A. He did say on the letter that - - I remember he said something to the fact that for this Ed Foster, whatever, to meet him, but I told him that I didn't know, I thought it said maybe at the Foote Avenue Quality, and that's why I thought we had to stop on the way back, but I didn't tell him
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positively that's where it was.Q. (Marking.) Twenty statements and he writes a note, and he writes a piece of paper, 20 statements, you say you don't know what that piece of note says, you have no idea. And then two or three statements where you are saying Ed Foster is involved in this, and he is going to meet Ed Foster here, he is going to meet Ed Foster there, so you are not protecting Ed Foster?
A. I never tried to say he was involved.
Q. And the last statement you make, you all the sudden see the note and see exactly what it said, and you admit what it says is a lie, but how come now all of the sudden you see what the note says, and you never did in any of those other ones? How come?
A. I don't know.
Q. Everything from that point in time - - or everything from that point until we got back into New York State after taking Wilson into Pennsylvania where she was killed is the same as what I told you before. As I said before, he had two knives with him. I don't know which one was used to kill Kathy Wilson. True?
A. That's correct.
Q. I do know that the knife he cut off the leg bindings was a yellow-handled knife with electrical tape on the handle. When we got back to New York State, we went to
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the Foote Avenue Quality and sat there for a minute. Then Jay used the phone and called someone. I heard him tell the person to pick him up. I took Jay to Mister Donuts and dropped him off.Q. You don't say anything about going into Quality to get a pack of cigarettes and gum. You say you just set there, and he used the phone, How come?
A. I don't know. That wasn't a total and complete statement. I told them in that statement what I hadn't told them before.
Q. But you described that portion of what happened, and you leave out you going into Quality to get cigarettes and gum. I took Jay to Mister Donut and dropped him off. I then went home. I was home for a little while when Jay called the house and asked if I could take him to Chautauqua Mall. I didn't want to do that, so I told him I would have to ask my mother if I could use the van again. As I was asking her, she was shaking my [sic] head no, so my mother said loudly no, you can't use the van. Is that true?
A. That is mostly correct.
Q. What is incorrect about it? What is untrue about it?
A. Just somewhat the way they worded it when they typed it down.
Q. What way did they word it that is wrong?
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A. Would you mind reading it again?Q. Sure. I was home for a little while when Jay calls the house and asks me if I could take him to the Chautauqua Mall?
A. Right there. He had called, but he didn't ask me at that time to take him to the Chautauqua Mall,
Q. Right (marking)
A. That is not a lie.
Q. I didn't - -
THE COURT: Just a minute. Finish your statement.
THE WITNESS: Thank you. That is not a lie. That is a misconception, I believe, on their part, because I don't believe I said that.
BY MR. SMITH:
Q. So now their secretary is typing things wrong, they are misconcepting things, too?
A. I feel she may have maybe misunderstood.
Q. I will take it off, Mr. Brown (indicating).
A. You don't got to worry about that. I am letting you know that.
Q. I will take it off. What is 800 or so, give or take one? As I was asking her, she was shaking her head no, so my mother loudly said no, you can't use the van. Is that true?
A. She - - see, she was not shaking my head no. That
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is misworded.Q. Shaking her head no. Should be a her instead of a my. I will give you that. She was shaking her head no and said loudly, no, you can't use the van.
A. No, that's the way (sic) it should be.
Q. What way should it be? What is the truth there?
A. Well, I had looked at her, you know, and when I begun asking her if I could use the van again to go pick up Jay, I had shook my own head no, and that's why she come back and told me, no, I couldn't use the van.
Q. Did she say that loudly so Jay could hear it, no, you cannot use the van?
A. She said it rather loudly, yes.
Q. So you are saying that's all true then?
A. Yes, misworded there.
Q. Okay.
A. As I brought out before.
Q. How come you never told them that before? What does it matter?
A. I have several times.
Q. I don't recollect seeing that. A little while later Jay showed up at my house, and when my mother told me I would have to go to the store for her, I took Jay with me. What do you think about that one, Mr. Brown? Did they mistype that one? Mr. Herzog screw up? His secretary screw up?
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Misconceived? They were all wrong?A. That is incorrect.
Q. That is incorrect?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. You got Jay showing up at your house, and you're taking him somewhere from your house. You're not picking him up with a green plastic bag on the way to get that spaghetti sauce.
A. Like I said, I didn't write that. I don't got him saying nothing.
Q. It's lie, isn't it?
A. That's incorrect.
Q. But you don't want to count that as a lie (marking)? What does it matter at this point?
A. Like I told you,, I don't care what you write on your chalkboard. You can write ten for all I care.
Q. I know you don't care, Mr. Brown, If you cared we wouldn't be here for two weeks doing this.
When we got out of the van, he told me he would have to go to the Chautauqua Mall parking lot. When we got in the van - - when we got out in the van he told me he would have to go to the Chautauqua Mall parking lot. Didn't happen there. You are saying it happened down the road when you picked him up. When we got there, it was like he didn't know where the van was parked because he kind of looked for it.
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A. That's not what I am saying either.Q. You didn't say that to Trooper Herzog?
A. No. That last comment that you made, you know, the little comments you make that you don't give me a chance to say anything about.
Q. When we got there, it was like he didn't know where the van was parked because we kind of looked for it. Is that true or not? Yes or no?
A. That is not accurate no.
Q. That would be a lie, too (marking).
A. We didn't really look for it. We just drove into one side of the mall and then come out on the other side.
Q. That's what you said here. We got in the mall, didn't know where the van was and had to look for it. Is that what you said?
A. I am still talking about the little statement you made about three sentences ago or whatever.
Q. Why don't you - - Mr. Massa is going to have you back on redirect on Monday, and I will let you talk to him about it with him.
A. Okay.
Q. We found it in front of Quality. This is Quality at the Chautauqua Mall we are talking about?
A. Yeah.
Q. Is that true or not?
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A. That's where it was parked.Q. Jay got inside and took something out of the vehicle. True or not?
A. I don't remember him taking anything out.
Q. That would be a lie, too, right (marking)? One thing was a package. It was a present because it was wrapped. That would be a lie, too, Mr. Brown (marking)?
A. It's incorrect.
Q. Incorrect, You can call them incorrects. I will call them lies. How's that? Then I saw him wiping off the steering wheel, and when he got outside he wiped off the door and the door handle on the driver's side. We left the mall and drove back to my house where I spent the rest of the night. Jay did leave the house at least once that night. Is that true?
A. That is correct.
Q. Jay left the house at least once that night?
A. Yeah.
Q. You're trying to indicate to them he left once and came back or what?
A. Like I said, when I had went in when supper was ready and came back out, he was - - before I went in he mentioned about taking the stuff and trying to burn it. When I came back out, he was walking back through the backyard, so I assumed he left.
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Q. This is 4-23-91, three (sic) weeks before we get to have the jury, right? But Monday and Tuesday last week you are telling everything you said was 100 percent of the truth, right?A. Yes.
Q. All right. (Marking.) (Indicating) eighty more lies just out of your last couple statements Mr. Brown.
A. 767.
Q. 767, that's what we are up to right now.
THE COURT: Step down, Mr. Brown, Ladies and gentlemen, it's 3:00, and it's Friday, and as I stated, the Court is going to recess you at this point until 9:00 Monday morning. Now during the recess, I briefly discussed some time parameters in the future so I could generally advise you when we would be completing this case so you could put your personal affairs in order.
You recall when we selected you, I told you and counsel that we would be three to four weeks with this case. As far as counsel can inform the Court, at this point I calculate and it's certainly an estimate of point of time, we will be another three weeks with this case. Starting Monday we should accelerate it with the witnesses different witnesses, but I see at least a minimum of three weeks and possibly a fourth. So I will inform you of that now. I appreciate that it's going to be further hardship on your but
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we are in harness. We are going to stay in harness until we complete this case. And again, leave your thoughts here as best you can. Relax during the weekend. We will see you Monday morning at 9:00, Court will recess until Monday morning at 9:00.(Proceedings were adjourned.)
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CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER
I hereby certify that the
proceedings are contained fully and accurately in the notes
taken by-me on the hearing of the above petition and that it
is a correct transcript of the same.
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___________________ (signed) Jenny L. Cataldo Court Reporter Notary Public |
| "Statement" of 4 - 23 - 91 |
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