| "Statement" of 2 - 27 - 91 |
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This "Statement/Report" is quite interesting on a number of accounts. First of all, it should be noted that it has been quite a dry spell, from April of 1990, since Michael has made any statements (he did testify at Buckley's preliminary hearing on July 26, 27, 1990). This is the first "statement" where Brown has Kathy Wilson taken to Buckley's campsite. Or at least, that's what Herzog says Brown said. His next statement, of March 6, 1991 was the last - for that story. It appears that Herzog is trying to work the blanket (w/red flowers) into the story. And Brown now has Buckley using some pink paper to sand the knife. Also, Brown not sure that was the knife Buckley used to stab Wilson. Must be that Herzog has received the FBI report indicating the knife had not been sanded, and had no blood on it. (Check Malone's testimony). Also Brown advising that Shelly Anderson did not call Brown's house that afternoon - as he had said before - which (previous statement) doesn't show up anywhere in the record. Also quite curious is that Brown appears to have them stopping at the logging road before going to the crime scene. In fact, the crime scene is left completely out of this one. (Also appears to be parts of transcript missing re sliding door - which was not a _sliding_ door - (reference to Herzog)). In this statement, Buckley and Brown first see Kathy Wilson in Falconer, but follow her to the Chautauqua Mall and kidnap her from there. This statement, or report, or whatever you want to call it, is where "Brown then stated that the statement that was made by Shelly Anderson and himself that Shelly Anderson, in fact, called Michael Brown at approximately 1330 - - 1:30 - - hours at 5-18-88 was incorrect." One of the problems with this is that no statement where Brown tells of this call appears anywhere in this case (the record). What is even more curious is that Barry Smith indicates that he is aware of this statement - yet nowhere does such a statement appear in these transcripts. It is also very curious that the situation concerning Shelly's statement is very similiar. (We're working on that too.)
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Statement/Report Feb 27, 1991 |
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MR. SMITH: Move Defendant's Exhibit 58, if I haven't already.
MR. MASSA: No objection.
THE COURT: Admitted
(Document marked Defendant's Exhibit No, 59.)
MR. SMITH: Let me show you what has been marked for identification purposes as Defendant's Exhibit 59, police report dated 2-27-91. Again, Mr. Herzog, right?
(No response.)
MR. SMITH: Move for admission of Defendant's
Exhibit 59, Your Honor.
MR. MASSA: No objection.
THE COURT: Admitted.
BY MR. SMITH:
Q. This is what, three - - eight days or so before you made the one we just read, right?
A. (No response.)
Q. 2-27-91 this officer met with attorneys Ross McKeirnan, Assistant Public Defender, and Thomas Bonavita,
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Warren County Public Defender, at PSP Warren, Pennsylvania State Police barracks. Also present for this interview was Warren County Detective James Tridico and the person to be interviewed, Michael Reuben Brown, who is listed as the accused in this report.At approximately 1825 this officer advised accused Brown of his constitutional rights by reading a rights and waiver, to which Brown signed his name as understanding his constitutional rights, and it was witnessed by his two attorneys. Brown started off first by telling us he felt in his opinion that Shelly Anderson and Ed Foster or possibly a Don Foster helped Jay Buckley on 5-18, 5-19-88, after the crime was committed. Start out with a lie, don't you, right?
A. Whatever you say.
Q. Well, it's a lie, isn't it? You don't have Saturday there. You have 5-18, 5-19, which would be Thursday. You don't say anything about Saturday. You got Ed Foster or possibly Don Foster, and you got Shelly Anderson, throwing her in there for the first time. This is the first time you throw Shelly Anderson in a statement. You decided to stick with Shelly Anderson because Ed Foster and Don Foster weren't in the neighborhood that day, right?
A. No.
Q. (Marking). Brown then stated that the statement that was made by Shelly Anderson and himself that Shelly
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Anderson, in fact, called Michael Brown at approximately 1330 - - 1:30 - - hours at 5-18-88 was incorrect. Is that true, she didn't call you 1:30 on 5-18-88?A. No.
Q. That's right. That's not true. (Marking). But it's very suspicious Mr. Brown. Because here we have Shelly Anderson, and here we have you, and we have two statements, and we are going to get into Shelly later on sometime down the road, and Shelly is saying that she called you at 1:30, and you are here saying that you called her at 1:30 in one of your prior statements or that she called at 1:30, and now you are saying that that is a lie, right? How does Shelly come up in one of her statements with the same lie that you come up with in one of your statements? Give me an explanation for that.
A. Well, first of all, I don't know exactly what Shelly said, and second of all, I told you maybe 50 times I am not going to comment on other people's testimony. I don't know what they are going to testify to, and I don't think you do either.
Q. Brown advised he did not have any communication with Shelly Anderson on 5-18, 1330 on the telephone. Brown then stated that the statement that was made by him and Shelly Anderson and himself, that Shelly Anderson, in fact, called Michael Brown at approximately 1330 hours at 5-18-88 was incorrect.
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You are telling the police there, are you not, that Shelly Anderson and you both gave a statement to the police that you were called at 1:30 on 5-18 by Shelly Anderson, and you're also saying there that that was a lie, And the question is, and the really curious question is, how did you and Shelly Anderson come up with the same story that turns out to be a lie? Are you talking with Shelly Anderson about lying to the police?A. Where is the statement that Shelly Anderson made?
Q. I imagine we will get into that when we get to Shelly Anderson. Here you are saying you have knowledge of it, aren't you? Brown then stated that the statement that was made by Shelly Anderson and himself that Shelly Anderson, in fact, called Michael Brown at approximately 1330 on 5-18-88 was incorrect. How do you figure that?
A. I don't know. I don't remember making a statement with Shelly Anderson.
Q. Exactly, how did you know what Shelly Anderson told the police?
A. I don't.
Q. You indicate there you do, don't you?
A. (No response.)
Q. That's what it says. There is only one real logical explanation for that, that you and Shelly Anderson communicated in telling certain lies to the police. And here
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you are admitting that's a lie, and she has got the same lie. How do you figure that?A. I don't know.
Q. Police never asked you when you took that statement that question, did they? How come you and Shelly Anderson told the same lie? When you gave this statement on 2-27-91, did Mr. Herzog or any of your attorneys say to you, gee, Mike, that's strange, how come you and Shelly told the same lie? Did they ask you that?
A. I don't think so, no.
Q. I didn't think they would. Let's go on with it. Brown did advise that on that day Anderson did appear at his residence in person sometime midafternoon. This was between the time that Michael was let off by Jay Buckley and the time that Jay Buckley picked him back up that Anderson appeared at the house. Truth or lie?
A. It wasn't when Jay picked me back up.
Q. That's a lie, too (marking)?
A. Yep.
Q. When Anderson appeared at the house that day she asked if Jay Buckley had called for her. True?
A. I don't believe so.
Q. Lie, too (marking). He advised Anderson that Jay had not called for her and at the time Shelly said do you know what is going on. Truth or lie?
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A. They were both the same questions, both the same answers. They obviously are both lies.Q. (Marking). Brown advised that this - - Brown advised at this time he did not know how much Anderson knew so he advised her that he did not know what was going on. Immediately or shortly after this Anderson left his residence. That's a lie, too, if your statement is consistent to this jury. You told this jury she did know how much was going on, right (marking)?
A. Yep.
Q. Brown indicated that when they drove his van to Ed Foster's residence they pulled into the driveway and set there for a time. He stated it was like Jay was waiting for Ed Foster or someone else to come to the house. That truth or a lie?
A. That's incorrect.
Q. Incorrect. He advised that Buckley got out of the van (marking). He advised that Buckley got out of the van, went up to the front door, then appeared back at the van, wrote a note on a piece of paper, which he took the paper inside the Foster residence in the basement and apparently left it there. That's the same one you told at trial, right? Which differs from your prior statements. We went to the logging road which is off US 62 again. When we pulled in, it was like Jay was waiting for someone. Is that true or false?
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A. It's incorrect.Q. You are not waiting for anybody at the logging road. That's a lie, too (marking). Buckley told me to stop at Quality Markets on Foote Avenue and told me that they would meet someone there. That's a lie, right (marking)? After a while Jay got out and used the phone, and that's when I went in to get a pack of cigarettes. Don't say gum there, do you? Just cigarettes. He was still on the phone when I came out of Quality. Jay told me he had called Shelly Anderson, but she didn't or couldn't come to take him to the mall and clean the car. Jay later told me it was Ed Foster that took him to the mall, and they wiped down the van so there was no fingerprints. That's a lie, right (marking)?
A. That's incorrect.
Q. Brown then advised this officer about the knife which was found in the basement and if, in fact, it was the murder weapon. He stated he knew for a fact that Buckley had this same knife and that, too, he had it at the crime scene. He advised the weapon he saw at the crime scene was that of a bone handle, light brown knife that had a chip at the top of the handle, but the handle was covered with electrical tape. Is that true or false?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you're referring to the knife we introduced
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into evidence right?A. Yep.
Q. He advised that he did not, in fact, see the knife in Buckley's hand just before it struck and stabbed Kathy Wilson. Is that true or false?
A. I told you I didn't see for positively the knife he did use to stab her.
Q. So you never saw it. He did indicate, in fact, he did see a knife in Buckley's hand, but that was just a glimpse, and he could not tell which knife, in fact, it was at this time. Do you got a feeling when you're making this statement that the police don't believe it's the murder weapon?
A. Like I told you, they come and talked to me and went up and typed up their recollection of what our conversation was.
Q. They are wrong? If I ask Mr. Herzog, is this the statement Brown gave you 2-27-91, he is going to say, well, no I altered some things. I put some things in there Michael didn't say and took things out he didn't (sic) say and stuff like that, right?
A. I didn't say that.
Q. Did they tell you on 2-27-91 or sometime before that they had got the FBI results back from the lab on the knife? Did they tell you about that?
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A. No.Q. No. They didn't tell you anything about, gee, it doesn't look like there is any blood or ever been sanded down, and we have serious questions as to whether this is the murder knife?
A. I don't believe so.
Q. No? Brown advised that later that night when they got to his residence both he and Jay were in the basement. Jay proceeded to pull out the bone handled knife and take the electrical tape off the knife and proceeded to wash the blade and handle. At that time Brown saw blood on the knife, and it it was the bone-handled knife. That knife, right (indicating)?
A. That's correct.
Q. After Jay washed the knife, he asked Michael for some type of sanding paper to polish off the blade. Brown stated his father obtained some pink colored paper from where he works, and this type of paper was given to Jay, and Jay, in fact, worked with the knife using this type of sanding paper. Both of these knives, to the best of Brown's knowledge, were just kept in Jay's coat pocket. Is that the lie or the truth?
A. I don't remember him actually sanding the knife, but the rest of that is correct.
Q. Don't remember him sanding the knife. Was it pink-colored paper?
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A. Yeah.Q. That your dad got from work, and were both knives actually kept in Jay's coat pocket?
A. Throughout the day, as far as I know, yeah, but when he came, he got them out of the garbage bag.
Q. You don't remember him actually sanding the knife. I asked you this morning when we went through the preliminary hearing, and you said yeah. I said do you remember him sanding the knife, and you said that's true, it just wasn't that type of sandpaper, and you just now said you don't remember him sanding the knife. Let's mark up a perjury for this morning. Let's mark up a perjury for the preliminary hearing. Let's mark up a perjury for the jury.
A. I never told this jury he did sand the knife. I said I give him some sort of sandpaper or emory cloth so he could.
Q. I trust they will remember.
A. Well, all these perjuries I supposedly made to this jury that you're supposedly pointing out, as a matter of fact, yesterday after our recess, you couldn't find any, could you?
Q. Couldn't find any what?
A. That's what I thought.
Q. Are you talking about the transcript? We are going to go back over your original statement, It's still
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being typed. I will have it by Monday. So then when you said you saw the sandpaper and the sand marks that get on the rug and told him he had to go outside, that couldn't be true neither because you never saw him sand, right?A. I did tell him if he was going to sand on the knife he would have to go outside, and that's when he took care of it.
Q. That you're trying to be neat, to keep the place clean. right? No problem with murdering someone, but don't get sandpaper on my rug, right? And you weren't scared of him, you could order him outside? Brown was then asked about the articles he had told this officer before he possibly could recover, one of those articles being Kathy Wilson's wedding ring. Brown advised this officer he is not sure of the night, but he felt it might have been the night after the abduction and murder of Wilson that he and Jay met with a subject by the name of Rick Ford. Lie, right? You and Jay never met with a subject by the name of Rick Ford. You said you called him on the phone, (marking), right?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you said it was that night, not the next day, right (marking)?
A. (No response.)
Q. Then you go on to say there were two other
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subjects in a maroon type Citation, one being a female and the other being a male, at the time Rick Ford attempted to sell Michael a necklace. Where are you coming up with all this? Two male subjects in a car, one being female. Ford Citation, all this, you're meeting him somewhere, right? Details, Michael, details, it's all lies right (marking)?A. (No response.)
Q. At that time Mike (sic) Ford attempted to sell - - and in turn Jay pulled Wilson's ring out of his pocket and gave it to Michael and told him to attempt to sell it to Rick Ford. No sale was made and then later got into the car and road (sic) around in that car. Lie, right? Never rode in a Citation with Rick Ford and two other males and Jay Buckley (marking). I just bought a brand new winter blue coat which I was wearing that night. Is that true?
A. What night?
Q. Well, whatever night you were describing. I don't know what night.
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you buy a brand new winter blue coat?
A. At one time, yeah.
Q. Which I was wearing that night, and I feel that after Ford - - after showing Ford the ring, I placed it back into the coat pocket of my blue coat. When I got out of the car, I apparently forgot my jacket, and the ring was still in
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the pocket. I think possibly that Rick might have taken my jacket, and he probably sold the ring as he, no doubt, found it in the pocket. What do you make of that one, Mr. Brown?A. I don't know.
Q. Boy, I bet you sure wish I hadn't asked you about that ring this morning and locked you into that story. Then you could say this was the truth.
A. It didn't really matter to me.
Q. I know it doesn't matter to you. 687. Believe me I know it doesn't matter to you.
A. Play your game.
Q. But it's a lie. I am playing the game? I am keeping score. I am not playing any game. It's a very serious matter. You got a man on murder here.
I apparently forgot my jacket, and the ring was still in the pocket. I think possibly that Rick might have taken my jacket, and he probably sold the ring as he, no doubt, found it in the pocket. And the police tell you later on after they scramble through Jamestown and track down Rick Ford and these other people that Rick Ford never had a ring of yours, Rick Ford didn't have your coat, and he didn't try to sell it.
A. Yes, he did have my coat.
Q. Did he try to sell Kathy Wilson's ring to somebody, Rick Ford?
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A. Did Rick Ford try to?Q. Yes.
A. He never got it.
Q. Right. Exactly. So there is about three lies right there, right? (Marking). Brown then advised that on 5-18-88, Buckley came to his residence in the morning, and there was a conversation at that time about Jay wanting to use Brown's van that day. Brown told Jay he could not use the van that day, and he became very upset and mad. Buckley then told Brown he would call Shelly Anderson, and she would drive for him. Brown then stated he went to work that morning at Amo Sale, and sometime in the late morning hours someone came and told him he had a phone call. When he answered the phone, it was Buckley. Jay told me he wanted me to meet him right away. I told him I was working and couldn't come; I wouldn't be able to come until 5:00. He then started to threaten me and said if I knew what was good for me, I would come right away.
I then went out, got into my van and drove to Four Coins Lounge where Jay told me to meet him. As I pulled up in front of Four Coins, I slowed down and saw Jay Buckley coming from the bushes. Lie, right? Didn't come from the bushes. Which are in front of Four Coins Lounge. I pulled my van around the corner, parked in the parking lot of the Four Coins Lounge. When I pulled in, I was facing east towards Amo Sale, and Jay came out and got in the passenger side of my van. Let's mark
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up the bushes (marking). Jay told me he got - - Jay told me when he got in that we were now on a stakeout, and in about ten minutes a female would come out of the office across the street, and she would have money, and we were going to follow her, and Jay was going to rob her. Did he tell you that?A. He did say that he was on a stakeout and - -
Q. Did he tell you in about ten minutes a female is going to come out of that office across the street?
A. He didn't mention that it was a - - whether it was a female or a male.
Q. Yeah (marking). No patterns to Schwab's bank deposits. They don't come out at the same time every day. They don't come out every day. We waited for a while, and then she came out. I don't think we waited ten minutes before she came out the door. The woman walked to a blue van, walked around and opened up the passenger back door, the sliding door, and then closed it and walked around and got into the driver's seat. Is that true or a lie?
A. That's incorrect, I believe.
Q. Incorrect, Lie. Never opened a sliding door, never walked around the van. Didn't say that when we had you Monday and Tuesday, right (marking)? You have no idea why you are telling these lies? Is that what you are saying? Any time we get to a lie and you have an idea why you are telling it, let me know, okay? The
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van pulled out with the woman driving and it was headed east on Main Street towards the main intersection. I pulled out with my van, and we followed the blue van to the center of Falconer at the main signal light. The blue van turned left onto North Work, and I followed the van as it turned. Just after turning, the blue van turned into a parking lot behind Marine Bank and appeared to be going back to the drive-in window. When it turned to the right and went into the parking lot, I turned left onto Falconer Street, drove down Falconer Street to the first house on the left. Is that true?A. That's correct.
Q. Okay, I pulled in the driveway and then backed out and came back to the stop sign at intersection of Falconer Street and North Work Street. Is that true?
A. That's correct.
Q. You pulled into the driveway of this house?
A. It was like a driveway right around the corner where you turn.
Q. I thought you said something different before, but we will trust the jury to remember. We waited there until the van pulled from the drive-in window at the bank and turned south on North Work Street and traveled towards the main intersection again. Is that true?
A. That's correct.
Q. At the main intersection, the vehicle went
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straight through the intersection onto South Work Street and traveled a short entrance (sic) then made a right turn into Quality Market. As the vehicle turned into Quality Market, we again followed the vehicle into the parking lot. The female operator of the blue van parked her vehicle and got out. Is that true?A. That's correct.
Q. I parked my van and Jay got out and followed the woman into Quality. When Jay came out he was carrying a 12-pack of beer, and then the woman came out. She got in the van and started it up, and we started up and started following her again. (Marking) right?
A. Yep.
Q. When she left the parking lot, she did not go back onto South Work Street but went in a kind of northerly direction into a parking lot on the north side of Quality and then onto a roadway which is like an alley, and we drive west on the alley for a couple blocks before the blue van turned right and went up to the main drag that runs from Falconer to Jamestown and turned west onto the main drag. (Marking). Very detailed account, isn't it, Michael?
We followed this blue van all the way to Chautauqua Mall at which time the van made a left turn off Fairmount Avenue at the first entrance to the Chautauqua Mall which leads past the old JC Penney tire shop. (Marking).
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2-27-91, right? Three months ago. We traveled the entire length of the mall and went around the back part of the mall and then came down the other side of the mall and we parked, which would be, as you're coming into the mall, the right side of the main entrance about four or five rows over (marking). The woman got out of the blue van and started walking towards the mall, and Jay waited for a while and got out of our van and got into the small blue van which I pulled into right beside. You're still on the Chautauqua Mall story, right (marking)?When Jay Buckley got out of our vehicle, he had with him the sawed-off shotgun. I saw him get into the blue van and work his way into the back seat area of the van. He got down in the back seat so he would not be seen. The woman then returned to her vehicle, and as she was attempting to get into the vehicle by backing in, because my vehicle was so close to her, I saw Jay Buckley coming from the rear of the van - - I saw - - I saw Jay Buckley coming from the rear of the van towards the front of the van. Jay used the shotgun and forced the woman from her van into my van (marking). Jay had placed a flowered blanket over the shotgun to cover the shotgun and to hide it. Once the woman was inside my van, I asked Jay where he wanted to go. He said he just wanted to get the hell out of there and to drive. Jay then started tying up the woman with some ripped up shirts he had ripped up
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earlier. Lie, right?A. Yep.
Q. (Marking), Mr. Herzog says it's unclear to this officer at this time whether Michael Brown and Jay Buckley took the woman to the Brown residence first, or if they went to Buckley's campsite first, but either way Jay Buckley and Michael Brown took the female eventually to the campsite, Brown advised that he parked his van just off the main road, and Buckley untied the woman's bindings except for the bindings around her hands and the gag around her mouth. Talking about the roadway to his campsite aren't you (marking)?
A. I don't know.
Q. Brown and Buckley, using the shotgun, walked the woman into the woods and to the campsite. (Marking). Brown advised that the woman was bound once they were at the campsite and she was placed under a shelter and covered with blankets and sleeping bags (marking).
The blanket used to cover the shotgun was also placed over the woman (marking). She was left there, and Buckley and Brown left, and Buckley dropped Brown off at the Brown residence. Brown was told by Buckley to stick around because if Jay needed him, he would be back to the house to get him (marking). Brown, while at the home, advised that he did not receive any phone call from Shelly Anderson, but she did come to the house and asked him
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if Buckley had called her. She also asked if Brown knew what was going on. Brown advised that he didn't know what was going on, and he said that because he didn't know how much Buckley - - he said that he didn't tell her that - - let me go again. Brown advised her that he didn't know what was going on, and he said that because he didn't know how much Buckley had told her. That's a lie, right? Anderson, after finding out what Buckley hadn't called for - - Anderson, after finding out Buckley hadn't called for her, left right away (marking).Why are you telling these lies? It's not to keep Shelly Anderson out of the picture? I mean, she is there. She is in it.
A. I don't know.
Q. Brown then advised that Buckley then showed up later at his house driving Brown's van, and that the Wilson woman was inside the van tied to a wooden post. Tied to a wooden post. He said that she was covered up with a flowered blanket. He then asked Buckley who helped get the woman from the campsite, and Buckley stated it was a buddy of his (marking). You don't have any problem telling these same lies, and then repeating them in another statement and continuing a story of lies, right?
A. (No response.)
Q. After being at the crime scene and heading back to New York State, Buckley stopped the van on a logging road, and
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that was the first time that Brown said that he really knew the identity of the female that was just killed back on Lindell Road. Brown advised that he saw a white type credit card with the name of Kathy Wilson on the card. White, Michael. White. Not black. White. That's what you said on two - -A. I don't remember telling them it was a white card.
Q. 2-27-91, we found it. White. Twice.
A. Both in supplementary reports.
Q. No, actually the one was a regular statement. Brown advised that they then stopped at Quality Market on Foote Avenue, and Buckley advised that they were meeting someone there, and then a short time later he used the phone apparently in an attempt to call Ed Foster. He apparently has (sic) unable to get ahold of Foster at that time, and said he was going to attempt to get ahold of Shelly Anderson to take him to the Chautauqua Mall and wipe all the fingerprints from the Wilson van (marking). As a matter of fact, you are not only not protecting Shelly Anderson, you're trying to get Shelly Anderson in trouble, aren't you? Brown thinks that Ed Foster is the one that took Buckley to the mall. Brown stated that Jay had talked about hitting Jeff McCullough - - we are back to Jeff McCullough - - who was working for 84 Lumber when he brought the deposit from Kennedy to Falconer. Jay also talked that his main score was
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going to be finger kickings - - finger lickings probably - - Jay also indicated there was another job planned, but he never got into the third one and who it might be. We already know that McCullough is a lie, because that's a party where you are joking with everyone else and your brother?A. That's not a lie.
Q. Buckley wasn't even at that party, was he?
A. He planned on hitting McCullough.
Q. Buckley wasn't at the party where you discussed it. You said in a statement where you said I heard that from other people, you said that was true, so you know, you can't have it both ways, Michael.
MR. SMITH: I think I already moved Defendant's 59, Your Honor.
(Document marked Defendant's Exhibit No. 60.)
Q. Let me show what has been marked for identification purposes as Defendant's Exhibit 60 dated 4-23-91. Is that the last statement you made to the police before this trial started?
A. I don't know.
Q. Well, let me ask you. Do you recollect any other statements after 4-23-91 that you made to the police or the district attorney?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You can't recollect. And 4-23 is what, three
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| "Statement" of 2 - 27 - 91 |
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